A German consulate official said Wednesday that authorities in her country want justice for the death of a 17-year-old exchange student who was shot by a Missoula homeowner.

Julia Reinhardt of the German Consulate General’s Office in San Francisco said that she was shocked by the shooting death of Diren Dede, who was enrolled as a junior at Missoula’s Big Sky High School.

A German diplomatic official arrived in Missoula on Tuesday to assist Dede’s grieving father, Celal, with the recovery of his son’s body and for meetings with local officials.

She said officials from her country have spoken with the Missoula County Attorney’s Office about Dede’s shooting death in a Grant Creek garage early Sunday.

Deputy County Attorney Andrew Paul met with the elder Dede on Wednesday afternoon, but said he couldn’t release any further information regarding the case.

“In general, it’s just shocking for us to know that this could happen,” Reinhardt said. “We expect that justice will be done. An unarmed juvenile shouldn’t be killed for trespassing in a garage.”

She added that German officials expect a thorough and speedy investigation into Dede’s murder.

“We have the impression the local authorities are committed to investigating this case,” she said. “We have full confidence in the local investigative and legal authorities.”

Dede, a German exchange student of Turkish descent, was shot by Markus Kaarma at about 12:30 a.m. after Kaarma and his wife heard someone in their garage. The couple had intentionally left their garage door open overnight.

Prosecutors allege Kaarma and his common-law wife, Janelle Pflager, set a trap for unknown individuals who had allegedly burglarized the home twice in the past three weeks.

According to the affidavit filed in support of a deliberate homicide charge, Kaarma and his wife left the garage door open 5 1/2 feet and placed a purse in the garage “so they would take it.”

Kaarma and Pflager also set up a video monitor and a sensor alert in the garage to detect an intruder.

When they heard an alert go off early Sunday, Kaarma grabbed his shotgun and exited the home’s front door, turning to enter the garage through the open door.

Pflager allegedly told police later that Dede said “hey” or “wait” before her husband fired four shots into the darkened garage. Two of those shots mortally wounded the boy – who was pronounced dead at St. Patrick Hospital.

University of Montana Muslim Student Association president Salvatore Farrara, whose given name is Nooriddeen, said Wednesday that his organization is providing support to Dede’s father during his stay in Missoula. Reinhardt said it’s likely the father will leave Missoula on Thursday.

Kaarma remains free on $30,000 bond, charged with one count of deliberate homicide. He has not yet been arraigned, but his attorney has said he will plead not guilty under Montana’s “castle doctrine.”

Reporter Kathryn Haake can be reached at 523-5268 or at kate.haake@missoulian.com.

(171) comments

pedrito_bandito
pedrito_bandito

In the 1960ies Germany searched for immigrant workers and made bilateral contracts with Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal. The US administration of that time insisted Germany had to contract turkish people because of the both nations' NATO membership. Turkey then signed a two year fixed term agreement.

Well, turkish people never went home again, as agreed. There are now 3 mio of Turkish and 60 million Germans. Lots of them with German passport.

A lot of Turkish people dont integrate and live in there own parallel universe in Germany. A lot of them live of handouts given by the German state which they refuse to accept as their own. But a German passport helps you to dont become extradited.

Thanks to Multiculturism we are now even guity for turkish burglars or at least trespassers here in Germany. And our lib dem party-bureau consulate complains about foreign laws in a foreign land. Shame on us!

montanamike
montanamike

Hopefully the investigators are looking into the two previous robberies to find out if the German student and his friend were the culprits by searching their apartments and interviewing friends and relatives. It will be very important to find out just when he started steeling other peoples property and why he needed the money and credit cards.

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

"Burglaries" apparently occurred, but there were no "robberies." Big difference between the two crimes. In this instance, no theft occurred but possibly a "trespass."

No one was "robbed" and the youth killed was his neighbor, in a house not an apartment. I am quite confident that all parties have been, or are still being investigated thoroughly.

nemo
nemo

And somewhere a young girl who was raped by a Saudi national awaits her day in court. Where is her justice?

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

And somewhere a fish gains access to a computer and posts something entirely unrelated to the story.

nemo
nemo

Just gliding through the water generating feed for bottom dwellers like yourself. Nice retort sport.

trust no one
trust no one

This whole thing was premeditated by the shooter. It's a shame he could have bought a surveillance camera or two for half of what his shotgun cost.

Tufo
Tufo

One of the best things about these comment boards is that the local village idiots can find each other. Well done technology!

jacksommersby88
jacksommersby88

Uh, apparently some people need to be reminded that "entering" is a crime just as much as "breaking and entering" is. Standing in someone else's garage is both trespassing and "entering." I'm not necessarily saying this unarmed teenager deserved this particular fate, but if he hadn't been committing an illegal act he'd still be alive.

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

Not sure we'll ever know. Doubtful though. No criminal history and a well liked foreign exchange student from Germany. Who knows, in Germany I believe neighbors tell their neighbors when they see that someone left their garage door open. Let alone a purse sitting in plain sight, especially if they see the residents are still up watching TV. Here, you get killed for it. Now, knowing the purse was placed there intentionally and the garage door left up intentionally and driveway alert installed and the baby monitor with video moved to the garage..........who would consider this was a set-up to murder someone? No lights, no confrontation, no questions, no place to run and no chance to explain. Sad and horribly wrong any way you look at it.

JayBoehner
JayBoehner

i think common sense dictates two general wisdoms:
1. don't break into a stranger's garage at night.
2. don't shoot people dead for breaking into your garage at night.

MT Born
MT Born

WOW, WOW, WOW. I cannot believe what I am reading. It is shocking, sad and sickening some of the comments that are being made. Don't know if they are just trying to get people riled up or if they truly believe what they are saying. If they truly believe it, I fear for my family. That my "so called " neighbor is such a miserable, fear driven person who presents danger to this community. Some of the comments that are being implied are people judging what was going on with this young man. Was he in the wrong for being in the garage uninvited, yes, no one is disputing that. But the consequence for it, again WOW. You cannot truly believe that the shooter was protecting his family??? If he were afraid for their lives, why would he go and confront rather than wait to see if the person tried to enter the house? He is hiding behind that, he/they were mad that they had been stolen from previously and he was bound and determined that someone was going to pay the price. It didn't matter who it was, what age they were. For those of you say the boy deserved it? Would you be saying the same thing if it was your son? I think not and if so, again WOW. I would like to know why the shooter wasn't charged with premeditated murder vs deliberate homicide. At this point with what information that has come out, if he is not convicted, I will lose all faith in the justice system.

Longhorn Fan
Longhorn Fan

Boy that guy's garage must be more valuable than the life of a human. Is his garage solid gold? And why four shots? If he was a good shooter, one shot could have killed the young man. I didn't know that just anyone could do a sting operation.

bobsack
bobsack

Here's the problem: as a husband, I am the first and only line of defense to protect my family. If something, someone or someones get past me because I am hestitating, asking questions or trying to discern why someone is on my property - I have put the rest of my family in danger.

It's too bad some kid got killed because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and I don't think it's right for homeowners to goad or trap potential criminals - but the world we now live in requires a different kind of approach to people who are intent on breaking the lawl.

The underlying issue for me here is that I'm not interested in taking the passive route when it comes to defending my property or family. I'd never try to purposefully put my family in danger by enticing someone to come into my home, but I sure as Hell have no problem taking action against someone who is there unlawfullly on their own accord.

mem35
mem35

Here's a little statistic for you (from the FBI's website): 2 Million !! burglaries per year in the US. In a total of 80 of those cases, the invasion ends with a murder victim. So if your house got broken in once every year, you'd have to live for 25,000 years until you or one of your family members got killed. And in most of those cases, there is very little you can do. The media paints a picture that every burglar is out to kill & assault you and your family in your sleep. That just isn't the reality. If you really look at things realistically and logically, there's nothing to worry about. Even in a violent country like the US, the risk of bodily harm from opportunistic crime is very very low. I understand peoples fears, as irrational as they may be.

SBEII
SBEII

80 people didn't have to wait 25000 years.

MontanaTaxPayer
MontanaTaxPayer

I work very hard for everything I own. I have even sacrificed time from being with my friends and family to acquire the possessions that I have earned. . What gets me so riled up is some people believe it is alright to enter upon someone's property and help themselves to property that DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM!

Where do these freaks get this sense of entitlement? I go to concerts in the summer time where we campout at the venue. A lot of thieves ransack our provisions which includes our alcohol. I put a stop to it. We now leave a bottle or two of used up alcohol and replace it will our urine. At the bottom of our bottle on the outside we attached a note saying "You thieves thought you just drank bad booze it is nothing but urine. P.S. I have Hepatitis"

No trap just a lesson learned. DON"T GET MAD, GET EVEN!

mem35
mem35

I hear you, and yes it is aggrevating to deal with vandalism and even petty theft. Your prank with those bottles is certainly more reasonable than shooting someone in the face.

huckleberryhaven
huckleberryhaven

Rigiht. And most agree with you that that is what you want to do, is protect your family. But in this case, if Kaarma wanted to protect his family so badly, why did the common law wife follow him outside while leaving their baby inside the home unattended? Why didn't they stay inside their LOCKED home if they were frightened or scared? Because he wasn't and he went out with one intent, and that was too kill. That is the biggest problem people are having with this whole thing. He put himself in danger by leaving his home...

miner
miner

Hey German consulate: justice WAS served. He almost burglarized this garage multiple times, and knew the risks. He lost his gamble. Good riddance.

ReturnoftheNative
ReturnoftheNative

As it stands now, Diren Dede is a murder victim. Your "opinion" means nothing; the German authorities are observing the law and supporting the victim's family.

SBEII
SBEII

Actually right now the German is a criminal that broke into somebody's house in the middle of the night with who knows what kind of immoral thoughts on his mind.

After the trial he may become a "murder victim" but right now the best he is is a trespassing thief.

huckleberryhaven
huckleberryhaven

Ignorance is bliss, huh, SB. The young man who was shoot and killed for standing in a garage... was not a criminal, nor was he someone who 'broke' into someones home.

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

No, actually he "walked into an open garage with the door up" and nothing was taken. You have to take something to be a thief. He didn't "break in" as you indicate and so far, you are the ONLY person suggesting an immoral act was forthcoming. That in itself says a lot.

huckleberryhaven
huckleberryhaven

"almost". Doesn't cut it.

Faxnlogicovremotnlhystria
Faxnlogicovremotnlhystria

Two things went wrong that night. The kid was trespassing at 1230. And the homeowner learned self defense from Joe Biden. Biden wants you to shoot through the door though.

Democide
Democide

Who cares about that kid? If he wasn't out looking to steal he wouldn't have gotten shot.If I see a pile of money in someone's garage I'm not going go in to look at it if it isn't my property.Stay out people's garages especially at night.

Harv99
Harv99

Your position that it is appropriate for suspected trespassers and petty thieves to be executed on the spot is laughable. And to answer your question, his parents, his family and friends, and people who oppose gratuitous violence and murder care about what happened to this kid. But you have to have a heart and a brain to feel that way.

Tufo
Tufo

Plenty of people care about "that kid," parents, teachers, friends, family. What a stupid question.

Frostbite
Frostbite

Interesting: German news sites are showing a screenshot of the young man rummaging around in the garage with a flashlight. The vast majority of the German comments = "what was he doing in the foreigner's garage in the middle of the night?"

huckleberryhaven
huckleberryhaven

He wasn't rummaging, he was standing in the garage next to a car. The same screen shot is on Kpax website.

miner
miner

It was just a coincidence that he was on a frequently-burgled property after midnight. Of course, the burglar is just a poor victim who would never bother anyone.

Detlef Lewandowski
Detlef Lewandowski

A great part of the turkish people in Germany are with own fault badly integrated in the german society. They dislike/oppose the german system of values and love her archaic brutal thought. Greetings from Berlin!

Larry Lewis
Larry Lewis

The kid shouldn't have been shot. But he shouldn't have been a burglar either. A travesty for all involved.

Miss Muralist 12
Miss Muralist 12

The Benelli Super Black Eagle II is the shotgun equivelant of a monster truck with those ridiculous fake testicles hanging off the trailer hitch. It is the gun most often purchased by enthusiasts who can't distinguish quality from marketing, and who don't often use it. It is a poorly made piece of junk, and it is fairly well known that those who purchase the weapon have extremely small, ahem, appendeges. It's too bad that this creep didn't have a SBE II because it most likely would have jammed before he could murder this kid.

SBEII
SBEII

Another person who knows nothing about guns commenting on guns!

The Super Black Eagle 2 is the apex of semi autos. If yours is jamming you use cheap ammo, don't be silly.

Tufo
Tufo

No,no the apex of all semi-autos is the black talon 7000 mega death machine. And if your super-duper black eagle is jamming that is because it is a gun.

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

"Apex," right. That's funny right there. One word.......Browning.

bigsky1104
bigsky1104

Poor innocent criminal. Since when is breaking and entering the act of a victim?

LinderChrist
LinderChrist

Foremost, I think the whole situation is fishy and people need to wait until the ALL the facts come to light. Obviously, things currently aren't adding up.

Having lived in Germany briefly, I know the people I lived around were generally concerned about their neighbors well-being. It's a cultural thing to look watch after others. Perhaps being that he was from Germany, maybe he saw some sort of mischief and was checking on it to watch out for his neighbors...before being shot? Think about what this kid might have been thinking on a cultural level too. Doesn't sound like he was a real prowler or trouble maker.

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

What was a "kid" doing out at 12:30 at night if he wasn't up to no good? Two kids in someone else's gargage at 12:30 is the definition or mischief. But according to you, he was wearing a cape and checking open garages for people he could help. Pah-lease!

Tufo
Tufo

Hey Sherlock, there was one person in the garage.

Mwilson423
Mwilson423

When did material possessions become more important than a human life?

SBEII
SBEII

When the German broke the law, trespassing and invading another mans home.

mim
mim

You are a genuinely sick individual.

SBEII
SBEII

Back at ya

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

You are exactly right. We should ask the burglar who survived, that very question.

huckleberryhaven
huckleberryhaven

Makes sense now why Kaarma 'shot high', it wasn't to avoid the car, it was because he knew his target before leaving the house. He saw the image on the monitor... seconds later had a gun in his and walked to the garage... aimed high and shot 4 times.

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

Or, he shot high, because shooting the car is not very effective now, is it?

huckleberryhaven
huckleberryhaven

How did Kaarma know the kid wasn't hiding behind the car, already out of the garage? The proof lies within the image that was taken just moments before Kaarma left his home (that was locked) with his common law wife behind him (leaving baby in the home) with shotgun in hand with intent to shoot/kill.

Snowcrest
Snowcrest

I researched what Germany would consider 'justice' for the specific crime of Murder and found the maximum sentence would be an automatic life sentence,,,but the court will also automatically look at the case after 15 yrs and conduct a finding that would determine if the prisoner should be reconsidered for release. If the prisoner is deemed rehabilitated, they will be released, and that would be in a murder of the most 'grave' nature.
So, in Germany, if there were some mitigating circumstances that did support the shooting , yet the shooter is still found guilty of 'Murder',,you might be released sooner? , (it was unclear), but it was clear you'd serve no more that 15 yrs .
I was not quite sure after researching what a manslaughter sentence would bring, but if 'murder of the 'gravest' nature brings 15 yrs on good behavior, I would assume manslaughter would bring you half that, or 7 yrs in prison. Germany does not have capital punishment.
Just for the record, if this guy laid a trap and killed that young man, I'd be fine with seeing him hang.

SBEII
SBEII

Nobody made the guy walk into "the trap" you are grasping at straws here with that terminology. Come out of the dense

Also I don't care how Germany does it, that why I live here and not there.

Snowcrest
Snowcrest

Come out of the dense?
I said IF he laid a trap, I didn't say he did.
Also,Since Germany is calling for justice, I thought it would be interesting to see what Germany's sense of what 'justice' would look like and found them to be what I thought was pretty lenient for murder.

Reading comprehension isn't your best attribute is it?

mem35
mem35

Don't mind him, he's setting up traps all around his trailer as we speak, trying to catch the mail man. USPS has been trespassing on his lot for years now and it's time for him to do something about that.

Clark Kent
Clark Kent

Your words here about this article scare me more than any others, based on what you say about how you would deal with anyone who might encroach upon your property. I hope you give thanks every day that you live in a land where your "freedoms" were bestowed upon you based upon the piece of land upon which you were born. I wish you had one ounce of appreciation for the peace-loving people that died so that you could enjoy those privileges. They were not of the mindset that shooting 17-year-olds in the face with a shotgun was the way to stop kids from stealing stuff from their garages. Weak, simple-minded cowards today believe that the use of a gun is the the way that patriotic Americans address burglaries and trespasses. Patriotic Americans remember that violence is the LAST resort that must be taken to correct wrongs bestowed upon them. This was not the course that was taken by Kaarma.

Tufo
Tufo

It is to bad that you don't live someplace else.

JayBoehner
JayBoehner

You seem to be interested in the German law, so, being a judge in Germany, please let me add a few details here... it is correct that you get a lifetime sentence for murder. But lifetime means lifetime, a prisoner can be released however after a minimum of 15 years, if there is a good chance that he/she can be reintegrated into society.
However, if the court finds that the act committed was of a very grave nature, a prisoner is barred from that parole hearing.
Also, criminals who seem to be a menace to society can be locked away forever, subject to recurring psychological exams that establish that the criminal still constitutes a danger.

For manslaughter - which is killing a man deliberately but without aggravating circumstances under german law - a person will receive a minimum sentence of 5 years; could be 20 or longer, depending on the circumstances. Your estimate of 7 yrs is a bit low, but indeed a person will most likely be released during daytime to help them find a job and reintegrate into society.

In the case present I assume the court would find the guy guilty of manslaughter; but they might also look into whether he acted in self defence.

In fact we just had a case last year where a 80 year old man was robbed by young guys, and when they fled he shot one of them dead by shooting in the back. Generally though, as the number of armed people is much lower in Germany, we do have less such incidents.

mslaitgurl
mslaitgurl

Whats really sad is all the lives (including the babe) that have been ruined over such nonsense. I bet the shooter/wife wishes they had used an ounce of common sense.

Harv99
Harv99

I think she's going to end up testifying against him for immunity. I don't think she ever thought he would actually start blindly firing the shotgun into the garage like a maniac.

Crazy Joe Davola
Crazy Joe Davola

I was thinking the same thing today. Wouldn't surprise me if the prosecutor offers her a deal to testify if they don't seek charges against her for participation in setting the trap.

SBEII
SBEII

The shooter and his wife probably wish somebody didn't invade their home at 12:30am breaking laws and such.

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

Funny, their home wasn't invaded. They killed an empty-handed youth in the dark of their garage. You sure like to spin this story into something it's not.

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

An attached garage is most definitely a part of his home. You sure like to spin this story into what you want it to be. Next.

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

You stated "They killed an empty-handed youth in the dark of their garage." Huh? If the garage was dark, how does anyone know if he was empty handed or not? How do we know the other burglar didn't flee with his weapon. He was not caught at the scene. Cops often shoot people in the dark because they think they see something that could be a weapon, or because a suspect makes a furtive movement. Calling the cops could very well have resulted in this kid being shot and killed also.

startingover
startingover

@pelosi I think they knew the kids were empty handed because they were watching them on their cameras.

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

One person was clearly breaking the law. The other person was trying to protect his home and his family by apprehending or running off someone before they could get from the attached garage into his house, to do what? Rob, rape, murder? We don't know, and Mr. Kaarma didn't know in the middle of the night. Some of you say, "Now, we'll never know." as if that were a bad thing. I am glad that Mr. Kaarma did not have to find out how far the criminal trespassers were intending to go. Mr. Kaarma may have been frightened to learn that there were now TWO criminals instead of one. The criminals may have threatened him verbally or moved towards him in a way that made him fear for his life. I don't know, and neither do you. The fact that you would cower in your home and allow whatever happened for 10 minutes to happen while you are waiting for the police to arrive is your decision. Mr. Kaarma decided to be a man and protect his family immediately. That is a legal choice that he had every right to make. If leaving your garage door open is an invitation to be burglarized than I guess you think wearing a skirt in public is an invitation to be raped. No means no and freeze means freeze. Especially when someone is pointing a firearm at you. I am just amazed how liberals always take the side of criminal who initiates the conflict. They also take the side of every scumbag on death row, yet they never take the side of protecting innocent life. And as far as all of the people who say, "We were all law breaking punks when we were young." No, no we weren't. You and the punks you hung out with had bad parents and were lucky that you survived to adulthood without being injured, killed or incarcerated. I congratulate you on overcoming your bad permissive parents. It is the same argument I hear when people come on this blog and defend drunk driving murders when they say, "We all do it." No, no we don't. You just think everybody does, because you tend to hang around people with similar values, and it just appears that way to you. There are few things that are more terrifying than having someone invade your home in the middle of the night. If Mr. Kaarma was not in fear for his life and his families safety then he did break the law and should be punished. That will be decided by a jury of his peers. In that case, it should be made up only of people who have felt the fear and violation of having someone sneak into their home in the middle of the night. For they are the only ones who can truly understand how that moment of fear, adrenaline and darkness feels like. He may also have come from a set of cultural values where you couldn't call authorities to help defend you. It is pretty obvious that a lot of people here are out to get him because he is Asian. I am talking about the EXACT SAME people who proudly come on here and defend the criminals who broke the law and snowboarded on Mount Jumbo causing an avalanche that killed an INNOCENT woman. BTW, why hasn't the other burglar been arrested and charged with burglary and accessory to murder? If you someone dies while you are in the commission of a crime you are guilty of accessory to murder. It seems the anti-gun, pro-criminal attitude of Missoula politicians is coming into play. Arrest the other burglar NOW!

mem35
mem35

Trespassing. Yes, death penalty for all trespassers. Electric chair for speeding !!! Gas chamber for parking in the handicapped space or filing your taxes late !!! Firing squad for driving with expired tags !!! Obey the law or deal with the consequences!!!

U-S-A, U-S-A !!!

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

Leave your doors unlocked every night since you are OK with trespassing.

huckleberryhaven
huckleberryhaven

To the garage, yes. Since that is the issue at hand, not the home (which in this case, their home was locked, and three people were safely inside where two of which should have stayed inside). Their choice and one I bet money on they wish they could take back.

I pity the fools
I pity the fools

RIGHT ON!

Crazy Joe Davola
Crazy Joe Davola

Firstly, setting up a death trap in your garage is not only illegal but also morally despicable.

Secondly, I'm Asian and don't see what relevance that has on Kaarma's guilt or the actions he took nor have I seen anyone in these comments suggest that it does except for you. The young victim who was murdered was also Asian being that the vast majority of Turkey is in Asia.

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

Sure, you're Asian. You should not be ashamed of that and jump into the Asian bashing that is going on here. Much of the middle east is on the Asian continent, but most Turks and those in the middle east are Caucasian. I left my garage door open the other night, does that make it a "death trap." With your flamboyant language I would have expected flying buzz-saws, trap doors that led to shark tanks, or perhaps a giant "laser" or something.

startingover
startingover

That depends. Did you leave it open with security cameras covering the driveway, and motion sensors and alarms designed to alert you while you waited with a loaded shotgun so you could trap someone inside and shoot them?

MontanaNative1ed7
MontanaNative1ed7

Obviously you did not comprehend the article that you read or what you write might sound related to the facts.

You are missing many pints such as the homeowner was baiting his garage, takes to a hairdresser about killings teenager three days before...,etc.

Harv99
Harv99

Now that you have established your opposition to the individual rights protected under the US Constitution, you should also know that when you restrict and infringe upon the rights of others your own rights will eventually be restricted and infringed upon. You could save yourself some time and move to Saudi Arabia and enjoy those benefits immediately instead of waiting for like-minded extremists to dismantle the constitutional rights and rule of law that is the foundation of this great country.

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

Blah, blah, blah. Neither the Constitution, Bill Of Rights, nor Roe vs Wade has anything to do with this. YOU may move to Saudi Arabia, I fought for my country and plan to stay here. I highly doubt that you did or ever will. I also own guns but don't need to shoot someone to make up for any shortcomings. Learn the law, go to church and be a descent person. It's pretty darned simple.

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

I support the individual right of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness.The intruder put Mr. Kaama in fear of losing all three. What rule of law? Are you referring to the laws that aren't enforced visa-vi immigration, or are you referring to king Obama creating and changing laws from the executive branch in violation of the constitution? Why do you keep telling everybody to move to Saudi Arabia? Are you an Islamophobe, or maybe just a Xenephobe?

startingover
startingover

So you consider it cowardly to call the police, and manly to ambush and kill someone? He had the total drop on these kids, and a shotgun. He could have caught the one in the garage at the very least, who would probably have rolled on his friend. The manly thing would have been to try and defuse the situation without killing someone. A real man doesn't consider violence his only option.

I pity the fools
I pity the fools

Right on!

Gomez
Gomez

Get that out of your system? As others have suggested, if you don't like our system of law move to somewhere else where it's a free for all/might makes right type of society. Perhaps Afghanistan or Somalia would suit you better.

bobby69715
bobby69715

I agree, also I have the feeling the guy who ran. Off might have been the leader of the two,

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

In short, the other youth apparently did not enter (per the garage video) the garage. So therefore, the other youth did not "trespass." Why not arrest the mailman, or the neighbor across the street? Makes almost as much sense.

rl11788
rl11788

This is so sad and heart wrenching. Kids right of passage everywhere is to do stupid things. Rooting around in someone's garage is wrong, but I've not heard that he tried to enter the home or actually threaten the inhabitants. At 12:30 am I'd be scared to death, holed up inside protecting my kids w a gun while waiting for cops. What if this had been someone w Alzheimer's wandering in? Would that change anyone's opinion here? Same story that someone unknown and NON THREATENING is in your garage. Sorry entire.country of Germany, and the world, that our good ol' boy stereotypical mentality has caused this loss.

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

Criminal activity is a "right of passage?" Only in liberalville. I wish liberals cared half as passionately about innocent life.

Avian
Avian

I thought this was said very well....Thank you smarterthanwalter
smarterthanwalter - 1 hour ago
""It seems that Ryan's actions on behalf of his client violate the Montana Rules of Professional Conduct for attorneys. Rule 3.6 (Trial Publicuty) states:

(a) A lawyer who is participating or has participated in the
investigation or litigation of a matter shall not make an extrajudicial
statement that the lawyer knows or reasonably should know will
be disseminated by means of public communication and will have
a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing an adjudicative
proceeding in the matter.
***
(c) Notwithstanding paragraph (a), a lawyer may make a
statement that a reasonable lawyer would believe is required to
protect a client from the substantial undue prejudicial effect of
recent publicity not initiated by the lawyer or the lawyer’s client.
A statement made pursuant to this paragraph shall be limited to
such information as is necessary to mitigate the recent adverse
publicity.

These rules mean that lawyers can't say things to the media that could affect how the public feels about the case unless the media reports something that the lawyer must respond to in order to prevent prejudice. In this case, Ryan is offering to the media the allegation that his client is receiving death threats and is a prisoner in his own house. The attempt to make his client out to be the victim is not appropriate.""

Alan H Johnson
Alan H Johnson

Well your interpretation is wrong. Read part (c) or your own quote. Ryan's statements are well within what he's allowed to do. A lawyer is not "gagged" against talking about the merits of his case unless specifically ordered by a judge. In high profile cases, Judges sometimes do take those steps on both sides to try to curb pre-trial publicity. .

MontanaNative1ed7
MontanaNative1ed7

Interesting.

bigskybachelor
bigskybachelor

Granted this young man shouldn't have been in this gararge but Whatever happened to the notion that you call 9-1-1 if you think you are in trouble??? Why must we as Americans suddenly take to our guns as if they are the solution to everything? This case is even more troublesome when they resident admitted he laid the trap and wanted to "shoot the kid". I hope he sees prison and never sees the light of day again. Remember people, we have
9-1-1 for a reason. And our Forefathers never meant the Second Amendment to be used like this. During those founding days of our Nation a "well regulated militia" (words from the second Amendment), exist becuase the men and young boys in their homes and on their homesteads WERE the militia of our new Nation then who fought the British. They came out of their homes with their own weapons to help form this Nation. There was no "armed forces" as we have come to have today. So therefore, the Forefathers saw the need for a well regulated for this reason for this reason only and NOT for the reasons by which we have bastardized this Amendment!! Come on...what happened to common sense? We have become a Nation of whacko's and looney tunes!! Shame on us!!

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

Our Founding Fathers were more afraid of a standing army harming the people, then almost anything else. "Well regulated militia" refers to keeping the militia from being bastardized into a standing army that would be a weapon that could be used by an unscrupulous government against the people. This is why it states, "the right of the PEOPLE" rather than "the right of the militia." As a fun aside for all you gunophobes, They codified this right after using weapons (many of them personally owned) that were EQUAL to the weapons being carried by the soldiers of the number one military in the world that they had just defeated. So accordingly, they would approve of private citizens owning the same weapons carried by the soldiers of today's number one military.

Bluto
Bluto

That could be a solution: tactical nuclear weapons for every grown American.
Should sort out things quickly.

Roger
Roger

Shame on you, JJe3691, for trying to change the meaning of the Second Amendment. The militia clause has no bearing on the main clause - "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." However, the Second Amendment doesn't protect people who shoot blindly into a darkened garage.

wildmtn
wildmtn

Thank you Roger for your comment and good sense!

Love's Life
Love's Life

I feel pretty confident that the evidence in this case will NOT support the "Castle Doctrine" defense. I am in support of responsible gun ownership. This monster is in no way an example of that and should be punished for what he did.

Airborne
Airborne

no possesions are worth killing someone over.

I pity the fools
I pity the fools

No possession is worth putting your life in danger for.....don't trespass and/or steal!

Harv99
Harv99

Advocating the killing-on-the-spot of trespassers and petty thieves, inlcuding minors, does a great disservice to the unbalanced folks out there--like the killer of this kid--who might follow your suggestion and end up behind bars.

Harv99
Harv99

Especially when the shooter will be doing a long sentence for doing just that. .

Crazy Joe Davola
Crazy Joe Davola

And especially when you can file a claim for theft on your home owners insurance.

I pity the fools
I pity the fools

The fact that this turned out to be a juvenile is irrelevant; someone was in someone elses garage in the middle of the night where they did not have permission to be. What their intention was could have been drinking, stealing, or murder. The home owner or any of us would have no idea what the intention was. I would assume that if someone were in my house or garage in the middle of the night, that person was a threat to me....juvenile or adult.

SBEII
SBEII

If you go into a garage in the middle of the night and invade somebodys home, all rules are off. You cowards all sit here on the sidelines and act like you know the kid was just going to steal stuff, you don't know so quit making things up. He could have been wanting to kill or rape the baby, that's just as possible as the poop you guys are making up on the other side.

Don't want to get shot over property, don't go onto PRIVATE property in the middle of the night and invade somebody elses home and you will probably live a long life.

Think about that and live.

Harv99
Harv99

"All rules are off."

Ask Mr. Kaarma about that thirty years from now when he is still behind bars. My guess is that he will disagree with you.

SBEII
SBEII

Dance around semantically all you want, yeah he may do some jail time but hes still alive even though the German put him in this position.

huckleberryhaven
huckleberryhaven

12:30am is not in the middle of the night. The garage is not a home. Coulda Woulda Shoulda. How about FACTs: Kaarma had intent to shoot days before. FACT: He set up his garage with intent to shoot. FACT: The victim was standing in the garage. FACT: Kaarma saw the victim in the monitor, grabbed his shotgun, left the safety of his locked home, stood on the garage door and shoot 4 times in the dark, aiming high knowing where his target was. Stick to the FACTS, SBEII. Carry on.

Gomez
Gomez

Something tells me that we'll be seeing you on the news some day.

wildmtn
wildmtn

Kill or rape the baby? How did you jump from being in the garage to that? What is in your mind?

huckleberryhaven
huckleberryhaven

"""SBEII - Dance around semantically all you want, yeah he may do some jail time but hes still alive even though the German put him in this position.""" ............................ Glad to see, SBEII, that you acknowledge what Kaarma has done is wrong and illegal confirming that Kaarma will be doing jail time for his wrongful actions.

PhoebeS
PhoebeS

Sure, Jesus would have shot first and asked questions later too.

SBEII
SBEII

Jesus wasn't in the garage illegally at 12:30am, lets leave him out of this.......unless your implying he was the other guy with the trespasser.

If hes back, I mean really back.....this changes everything!

JustEd
JustEd

I've heard Jesus is there for everyone, so that would mean Jesus was there with him. It would appear that if we have a creator he is very incompetent.

SBEII
SBEII

If I am reading you right ED, Jesus was the other person and by him taking off, he realized this was illegal and he could be killed? Obviously he wouldn't want to have that happen again, (the first time had to suck) so Jesus made the right decision and lived. Too bad the German didn't follow Christ.

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

Lol

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

Ah, yes. Right on cue. Lessons in Christianity from the Christianphobes.

Crazy Joe Davola
Crazy Joe Davola

Then tell us, Ms. Galore, what would Jesus have done?

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

Unlike you, I don't presume to know what our Lord and Savior would have done. But if you want to use his life as an example, he never drove a Prius either. Although most Prius drivers do think they walk on water.

geoffy joe bob
geoffy joe bob

Your handle should be no brain onatopp

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

Your handle should be, not smart enough to make any kind of point, just call names. Now get out of the way, so I can debate people who actually have opinions and try to back them up.

wildmtn
wildmtn

Really? That's the Jesus you understand from the New Testament? Funny, you must be reading some other Bible. No one who advocates this kind of execution could possibly be trying to live a "Christ-like" (Christian) life, no matter what they call themselves.

Detlef Lewandowski
Detlef Lewandowski

I like the U.S. laws! Greetings from Berlin!

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

You are the kind of people we welcome and want to visit our country. We don't want the criminals who burglarize our homes.

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

Fortunately, Missoula and the surrounding area only has a few homicidal lunatics per thousand residents. Unfortunately, it appears that they are all posting at once on the story blogs in support of a murderer. Our forefathers would be disgusted by their comments and are liking rolling in their graves for suggesting this is about gun rights or justifiably killing trespassers. Said forefathers were respectful, intelligent, God fearing leaders and would not approve of the cowardly and evil actions of the resident under any circumstances. Those supporting him are no less a coward and no less evil.

Clark Kent
Clark Kent

You hit the nail on the head.

MontanaNative1ed7
MontanaNative1ed7

Cowboys used to shoot trespassers in the foot. Now we use excessive force and blow up juveniles. Four shots instead of one?
Why?

Bittersweet
Bittersweet

"Cowboys used to shoot trespassers in the foot...."

Did you seriously just say that?

DaveQ
DaveQ

The kid that got away must have told the police what they were doing in the garage. So what were they doing in there? I read in another article that the homeowners smoke in their garage so they leave the door half open. I bet those kids were looking for cigarettes or alchohol. I know about German exchange students and the one thing they hate about coming to Montana for a year is that they have to give up the drinking and the smokes. He probably felt it was wrong that he couldn't buy them like he can in Germany. Those kids probably already had a few beers and were looking for more.

Alan H Johnson
Alan H Johnson

German Exchange students like tobacco and alcohol? A lot of American teens like cigarettes and alcohol too. The illegal aspect just makes it all the more fun. It isn't any one nationality. It was true when I went to high school in the 60s. It's true now.

wildmtn
wildmtn

I know exactly what you mean Alan. I grew up in Missoula and yes, we were bad sometimes but at least we got the chance to grow up and out of our juvenile behavior.

Readneck
Readneck

This is now the face of America that the world sees. That of an idiot with a gun who shoots first, asks questions later.

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

Yep and "to add insult to injury" (or death in this instance), many of the comments posted on the story blogs reflect that of a nervous, fearful, dangerous, homicidal and likely inbreed "new breed" of gun owners. They sure aren't a good representation of Montana, let alone "Montanans." Fortunately, they are a minority and most in this state are good people.

BJackson
BJackson

You don't know that they are a minority DoNotLie, but after reading so many of your messages, especially the ones that are directed at me, I suspect you DO lie, but you don't like to believe you do, which is a very sad position to be in.

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

Spin faster internet attorney, you're losing ground very quickly with your attempts to smear me. I don't ever lie, not even a little white lie to protect a child. I've seen too many others in my life get caught in their lies because they can't keep track of them and forget who they tell them to. I'm confident you are quite familiar with the predicament it brings on, from personal experience. My position and career are not worth lying for any reason. Yours? I'm confident that the bad people of Montana represent a minority of the population. What's "sad" is that you don't.

BJackson
BJackson

Does not matter what the world thinks, we are a country of OUR laws and each state has their laws, that is the problem with some these days, they worry far to much of what the other think of us, has no bearing on what has happened here, if you are worried about what the world thinks, then feel free to move someplace else so you don't have to worry about this aspect of life.


Perhaps Russia would welcome you, of course Russia, don't seem to concerned about what the world thinks right now!

Kahlotus
Kahlotus

Russia has no bearing on the conversation at hand.

BJackson
BJackson

In the context that Readneck is trying to present, yes it does, he is trying to say the world is looking at us poorly, which we are trying to say the world is looking at Russia poorly over the Ukraine, yes it has bearing on the conversation at hand.

Bittersweet
Bittersweet

Russia would be part of the world. Readneck commented on what the world sees. So readnecks comment has no bearing on the conversation at hand?

I pity the fools
I pity the fools

As tragic as this whole thing is, I still would like to know what this wonderful, well-liked, talented soccer playing foreign exchange student was doing in someone elses garage at night. I don't care where you're from; snooping in someone elses property is generally thought of as wrong.

mem35
mem35

Is it unusual for teenagers in Montana to steal beer / liquor, trespass, participate in dares, vandalize etc.? All of those things are a nuissance of course but that's what a large percentage of boys are like everywhere. Should they all be shot?

I'm sure that NO self defense law in the US was written in order to allow wack-jobs to shoot whomever they want to "protect" their beer stash and walmart tool collection in their garage. How sick does someone have to be to plan on catching and killing teenagers who are trespassing / stealing or whatever they were doing... a sociopath like this shooter has no place in society and I'm sure he will be removed for many years. I do feel sorry for the child that will be growing up without a father and I feel sorry for the friends and family of the victim.

SBEII
SBEII

Quit complaining about the laws, follow them and you won't have a problem. Its BS you are trying to justify criminal behavior of any kind and I pray you dont have children to teach these crummy values too.

mem35
mem35

There's a difference between justifying criminal behavior and saying that it's wrong to shoot someone for petty crime. Consider moving back to the middle east where you'll fit in much better with your type of values...

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

Amen brother!

Clark Kent
Clark Kent

It's BS you are trying to justify killing everyone who commits a petty crime. I pray you don't have children to teach these dangerous, evil values to.

ryansd
ryansd

I created an account just to respond to you. I've been following this event since Sunday and I'm so frustrated by your consistently insensitive and ignorant comments throughout this string of articles that I have to respond.

You’re implying that breaking the law is grounds for being shot. Of course Marcus is going to say his life was in danger but that’s all speculation at this point. As an objective observer I feel pretty confident about the fact that there is much more evidence to suggest that his life was not in danger. But you don’t seem to care about the details.

Judging by your multitude of comments, you seem to think that the mere fact that this kid broke the law was grounds for death. This kid was trespassing. That’s all the information we have at this point. Trespassing is a misdemeanor on par (in the eyes of the law) with stealing a bike. Should all bike thieves be shot? Where do you draw the line? Seriously SBEII, tell us where you draw the line?

chezi
chezi

He was probably into mischief as many of us were when we were kids, but we never had to worry about being killed for it...I remember a few boys in the neighborhood who enjoyed getting into the fridge we had in the backyard that had beer in it..My grandparents solved the problem by bringing it inside, thank goodness they were allowed to live and they did become great adults.

DaveQ
DaveQ

How much you want to bet that that's why they were in the garage. The homeowner also smoked out in the garage. I bet they were looking for beer or smokes and I bet they were buzzed from their party they were returning from.

Harv99
Harv99

We'll never know since he was executed by someone who was clearly not responsible enough to own a gun.

DaveQ
DaveQ

The other theif that was with him ran away and he knows why they were there unless he was too wasted to remember.

Raptor660
Raptor660

There is nothing to discuss.The kid entered someone else's property and knew better and got his self for killed.End of story.

mem35
mem35

There is nothing to discuss. No decent person baits juveniles that steal some beer from his garage and shoots them in the face. End of story.

dsrobinsMT
dsrobinsMT

We agree fully.

bobby69715
bobby69715

How would he know the invader was a kid? Anyway, 17 year olds kill plenty of people every year, stop acting like he was some little baby!

bobby69715
bobby69715

The cops bait people into committing crime, its called a sting. Cops also shoot unarmed citizens a lot, in broad day. Light & get to go home! And they have the training.

chezi
chezi

seems we pay a hefty sum to have a law enforcement for the reason of protection...the boys did not attempt to enter into the home and there was ample time to dial 911 prior to getting his gun, going outside, loading it and then shooting four times...I think we will find there is much more to the story

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

He could have done all of that in under 60 seconds. News Flash: A call to 911 does not get a cop to your door in anywhere near 60 seconds. Your argument is false. Also, an attached garage is part of your home.

Lynne McKay
Lynne McKay

Yes, that is true, calling 911 does not mean the police are right around the corner to help. There are more Americans carrying concealed carry permits (my self included) to protect themselves from harm. Mace is a great deterrent, and depending on the situation, is better. This might have been a case where mace would have been just enough.

SBEII
SBEII

Bang!

Nailed it

DoNotLieToMe
DoNotLieToMe

Nailed what? You haven't nailed anything other than your sister or perhaps a cousin.

SBEII
SBEII

If this is going to be the "face of America" then HELL YEAH!

I will be the first time since Reagan was President we have showed some gravitas with an extra helping of balls. We need to be feared as a country, and if this is all it takes to undue the 6 years of defamation the current administration has done then all I can say is....send more exchange students to break into our garages in the middle of the night.

Oh and to the German consulate, this is our country, mind your own people and laws and we will do the same. You are insulting us

AT
AT

Reading internet comments has always been a quick way to lose your faith in humanity, but this comment might be the most embarrassing and appalling I've ever seen.

You're celebrating unnecessary death and violence? A boy was just killed and you're cheering it in all caps?

If you want to be feared, you're succeeding. You make me afraid for my country.

There's more strength—for individuals, nations, and the world—in being loved than feared.

As a Missoulian, I'm ashamed for your comment and the others like it here.

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

I assumed his exuberance was over the fact that no one has to be subjected to any more of this burglars crimes. Criminals escalate their level of crime after they gain the confidence of succeeding at their current level. Irrelevant of whether Mr. Kaarma is found guilty or innocent, the shooting sends a message to criminals in Missoula that their lives are in danger if they illegally enter somebody else's home in the middle of the night. If this inspired fear in even ONE criminal then Missoulians are safer in their homes tonight. Burglars feel less safe to burglarize. Your naïve notion that being loved is stronger than being feared..... Well, Ukraine is much more loved in the world and Russia is much more feared. How do you think that love and fear thing is working out for the Ukraine?

PelosiGalore
PelosiGalore

They, along with the Saudis should apologize for sending their criminals here.

dsrobinsMT
dsrobinsMT

International law and long standing diplomatic agreements give every country the right to have their consular officials in other countries investigate the deaths of their countrymen abroad. The United States has long recognized this right and agreed with the procedures necessary. In turn, our own consular officials abroad are granted the same rights, courtesies and privileges when investigating the deaths of Americans in foreign countries. Your comment really displays your ignorance and bigotry.

clockwork
clockwork

• *Facepalm* I hope SBEII is just trolling here. To think other countries don’t fear us is absolutely ridiculous. If anything, they fear us even more especially when you factor in the drone wars and exponentially the largest military power in the world. We essentially do what we want and don’t give a darn about what others have to say about it. There is a fundamental difference between Bush and Obama. Take say the international assassination campaign. The presumption of innocence which used to be part of American and British law for centuries has been thrown out the window. Under Bush, we kidnapped them and sent them to prison camps where they were tortured, conditioned, and possibly killed. Under Obama if we suspect somebody to be a terrorist, we just murder them and anyone who happens to be in the general vicinity. And for some reason our culture seems to celebrate this. I found this to be an interesting statement made by an American law professor Jonathan Turley. He came out and deemed Obama as being on his way to being the worst President ever in terms of civil rights. So to think we aren’t feared is an absolutely ludicrous notion.

Longhorn Fan
Longhorn Fan

SBEII: I thought that "breaking" meant kicking a door down or some drastic measure. I didn't realize that walking into a garage with the door open like apparently it was would be classed as breaking. Entering and/or trespassing maybe, but he didn't break into anyone's garage.

Harv99
Harv99

Maybe in Saudi Arabia, but here in the US we don't execute people for trespassing. The shooter will be spending many years behind bars after being convicted of murder.

dsrobinsMT
dsrobinsMT

Decent Montanans certainly hope so.

MiddleFinger
MiddleFinger


The media circus is headed to town. Put on your church clothes folks, We're going big time now.


Janice
Janice

MF, off all the comments posted about this story...yours is the one that we can all take to the bank. It's about to get real up in 'ere.

MontanaTaxPayer
MontanaTaxPayer

"Julia Reinhardt of the German Consulate General's Office in San Francisco says that an unarmed juvenile cannot be lawfully killed by a citizen just because he trespassed."

Yep, he just was shot! Some people even get their asses shot for trespassing. Welcome to freedom. Besides Mr.Kaarma did not know the age of the burglar. We don't ID burglars, just people buying alcohol, and tobacco products.

P.S. What about the "Host Family" are they going to be held responsible for Dede?

Note to Mr. Kaarma's Attorney: I'd be suing the "Host Family" or Dede's Family for Dede's actions.

chezi
chezi

Dear Montana Taxpayer....Judge ye not lest you be judged..(thank goodness you do not reflect the overall opinion of Montanan's I know)

Harv99
Harv99

And some people who unlawfully shoot trespassers--this bozo didn't even know what he was shooting at--will spend many years behind bars to pay for their crime. Freedom works both ways, my friend.

LinderChrist
LinderChrist

What good is suing the host family going to do? All is does is waste our taxpayer money?

MontanaNative1ed7
MontanaNative1ed7

Amen!

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