On a hot summer evening in 2011, University of Montana police and the Missoula Police Department responded to calls of a shooting in the parking lot of the campus dining hall.

The 19-year-old victim had suffered a shotgun wound to the hand. The 20-year-old suspect, later identified as Michael Ream, was taken into custody without incident. As it turned out, the two were buddies and the .20-gauge shotgun had accidentally discharged, marking the first time a weapon had been fired on campus in nearly 30 years.

The Montana Board of Regents has strict policies regarding firearms on public campuses across the state. The law has been unchanged for years, and allows only trained and certified security officers to carry weapons on school grounds.

Students who want access to their firearms must store them in a campus gun locker. They can check them out as they please to hunt and sport shoot. They cannot, however, carry them to class or handle them in their dorm rooms.

“Things have run smoothly with our current policy and procedures,” said Kevin McRae, associate commissioner of higher education for the Montana University System. “There’s already a state law saying you can’t carry a concealed weapon in a state building. Additionally, we have a Board of Regents policy saying that only an authorized campus security officer can carry a weapon.”

***

While some argue that the state’s policies work just fine, as evidenced by the lack of problems reported by campus police, Gary Marbut, president of the Montana Shooting Sports Association, stands among gun rights advocates who believe that the Board of Regents has no authority to ban firearms on campus.

Marbut argues that current laws leave students and faculty vulnerable to others with ill intentions. He says the time has come to revisit Montana law as it pertains to firearms on campus.

“I think people tend to agree with us, pretty generally, that the Montana Constitution doesn’t give the Board of Regents any authority to abolish the (U.S.) Constitution,” Marbut said. “We have a long wish list of things to do in this upcoming legislative session.”

Following trends in other states, Marbut said the debate in Montana has undergone a shift in public opinion regarding firearms – a move he calls more sympathetic to the Second Amendment.

He cited the state’s “shall issue” concealed weapons permit law, which passed in 1991. He said MSSA also has helped push 58 pro-gun and pro-hunting bills through the Montana Legislature.

More recently, Marbut’s organization issued a questionnaire to candidates running for the 2013 Legislature. Among the 15 questions, the organization asked candidates if they’d support changing Montana law to allow concealed permit holders to carry firearms in restricted places, which include college campuses.

MSSA also asked candidates if they’d support a bill revoking all authority from the Board of Regents to restrict firearms on college campuses. It is, Marbut said, an effort to allow sensible possession of weapons at Montana’s colleges and universities.

“The bottom line is, although the Montana Constitution gives the Board of Regents broad power to manage the university system, it doesn’t give them any authority to amend or alter the (U.S.) Constitution, or suspend the constitutional rights of people on campus,” Marbut said.

***

Across the country, elected officials have grappled with the debate of allowing or not allowing guns on campus. In 2011, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures, 18 states introduced legislation to allow concealed weapons on campus in some form.

“Within the last year, we’ve watched the evolution of other states, their struggles and their legislative actions,” said McRae. “Not only does it keep us contemporary and up to speed on the issues other states are dealing with, but also, what we might expect the dialogue to be in our state.”

That dialogue surrounding firearms is bound to continue in Montana in the coming years, especially as groups like MSSA pressure state legislators to rewrite the state’s gun laws and lift restrictions on where weapons can be carried.

Of the 18 states that introduced campus gun legislation in 2011, two passed bills, including Wisconsin and Mississippi. While the Wisconsin law permits concealed weapons on campus, it also allows campuses to prohibit weapons in campus buildings if signs are posted.

The Mississippi law goes further, allowing those who have taken a voluntary course on the safe handling and use of firearms by a certified instructor to carry a concealed weapon on campus.

In Montana, the Board of Regents’ policy currently allows firearms to be carried on campus, but only by trained security officers and employees of a private security company registered to carry a gun.

The Board of Regents also allows each campus to establish regulations governing the transportation and storage of firearms on school property. UM allows students to store firearms at a central location. They also may store firearms in a secured vehicle.

“Only campus security officers are authorized to carry,” said McRae. “But there’s something in the Board of Regents policy that says campuses can come up with their own policies for storage. We’ve never used the term gun-free zone.”

***

Without success, efforts have been made to allow permit holders to carry concealed firearms on Montana campuses, and to loosen state gun laws pertaining to universities and government buildings.

State Rep. Krayton Kerns, R-Laurel, introduced a bill in the 2011 Legislature allowing gun owners with a concealed permit to carry guns in prohibited places, such as bars, banks and government buildings, including those on college campuses.

“I would certainly think it’s a state issue and not a college campus issue,” Kerns said. “I’d like to allow students with a conceal carry permit to carry concealed weapons on campus.”

Kerns believes current laws prohibiting firearms on campus create an illusion of safety. He said gun-free zones are only gun-free for victims, while people intent on committing crimes don’t heed the law.

He points to mass campus shootings at Northern Illinois University in 2008 and Virginia Tech in 2007, where Seung-Hui Cho shot 49 people and killed 32. Cho carried two weapons in the incident, including a .22-caliber semiautomatic handgun and a 9 mm Glock.

Kerns believes an armed student could have stopped him.

“Had there been one other armed student in that room, you’d have had a different outcome,” Kerns said. “Every time we have one of these shootings, the kneejerk reaction is to take guns away from those who have no intent on doing a crime.”

If Kerns’ bill were to pass, Montana would join five other states that now allow concealed weapons on campus, including Colorado, Oregon, Utah, Wisconsin and Mississippi.

***

According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, 21 states currently have an outright ban on carrying concealed weapons on campus, including Wyoming, North Dakota and Nevada.

Montana, however, remains one of 24 states where the decision to ban or allow concealed weapons on campus is made by individual colleges and universities. In Montana, that authority falls to the Board of Regents.

Gary Taylor, chief of police at UM, said the current laws work fine. He said his staff, supported by local law enforcement, is equipped to deal with a campus shooting. Allowing students to carry concealed weapons would only muddy a bad situation.

“We have an active shooter team, should a shooting start, and we’re all trained on that,” said Taylor. “Should we respond to an active shooting and we’re looking for someone with a weapon, and all of a sudden we have three armed students in a room, it makes it hard to determine in that split second who’s the shooter and who’s not.”

Ream, who had the shotgun accidentally discharge while holding it, told the Missoulian last November that the university’s punishment was harsher than the law. UM placed Ream on probation for two years and he can’t go into dorms. He’s also not allowed to carry guns or knives on campus, and he faces expulsion if he encounters another problem.

Reporter Martin Kidston can be reached at 523-5260, martin.kidston@missoulian.com or @martinkidston.

(59) comments

tired of spin
tired of spin

Questions
Who funds MSSA, and how do they get their money

Because "Few served in AFG etc" they are NOT qualified by such to blaze away in a classroom or other situations where panic, shouting and disorder will rule. AFG etc vets used long guns, not handguns. Most vets would agree they are not masters of handguns.

"CCW Permits from 32 other states honored", VERY dangerous as GA has zero training, FL requires as little as 10 shots, there is NO restriction as to cal. can "qualify with 22 shorts". None ever discuss what "requirements" are needed and what to do about states with very lax to none other then criminal check.

Lastly, for those who actually mastered the complexities of handguns, not a 50 rounds and you are qualified etc, I can think of nothing more scary then folks shooting in crowds to "save us all" and worse yet, "cops showing up as bad guns good guns shoot it out"

So let's cut out the scare tactics of "campus overrun with bad guys with guns" and look at cleaning up, standardizing nationwide, "qualification" as for now most a sorry joke at best, but sells guns as NRA wants done. PS how many "students" can afford 50 rounds a month to practice to be Wytt E's or B Cody. Let;s put money into education, not guns/ammo.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

For someone whose claim is "tired of spin"...

...you sure put a lot of it in those few paragraphs...

Jason Maxwell
Jason Maxwell

When you make an assumption you say something like, I would assume or my assumption on the matter .... "The reality of the matter" is not how you state an assumption. The "it" that you are wrong about is if an under aged is approached by a federal agent they will be arrested. Lol that gave me a good laugh. Thank you for that. The federal law you are referring to dictates what age ffl dealers can sell to. If they are caught selling handguns to under 21 it is the dealer that is breaking the federal law. It is not illegal state or federal for an 18 year old to own a pistol. Make sense?

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

"I believe..."
"I would guess..."

That is what are called assumptions.

...and if "the reality of the matter is not how you state assumptions"...then why did you bother to state that I should have stated my assumptions a certain way? Oh...so you could be right...my bad.

Jason Maxwell
Jason Maxwell

Hakon Montag then admit you are wrong again.... "While there is no federal law specifically addressing the issuance of concealed carry permits, 49 states have passed laws allowing citizens to carry certain concealed firearms in public, either without a permit or after obtaining a permit from local government and/or law enforcement" Federal law regulates the age that you can buy them, not own them. There is nothing in the federal law funding or not that that prevents concealed weapons from being on a campus. This book of federal laws that you are getting your facts from, did you write it on a bored drunk night? You should stick to subjects you are knowledgable about like tofu, patchouli oil, and pot.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

Obviously you have some issues you need to deal with yourself.

I quoted the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Now if you think that the Feds are not going to enforce age limits...be my guest in passing that information all over the planet.

The Feds have a routine of passing their laws and rules and regulations in any property that gets money from them...even in "Federally funded housing".

Take your issues up with someone else. I have quoted the Federal Law and you think I made it up?

Your issues are showing.

By the way...why are you arguing a point with me that we basically agree upon? I have long been in agreement with allowing CCW on campus. I guess your issues are more important to you than understanding what is being said.

LOL

Jason Maxwell
Jason Maxwell

I know what you are quoting, but if you are going to quote it make sure you get it correct. You said in your previous comments that an 18 year old can not buy a handgun which is correct, making it impossible for them to get a ccw, which is incorrect. Regardless of if we are for the samething or not, atleast get your facts right.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

"This book of federal laws that you are getting your facts from, did you write it on a bored drunk night?"

...and you think you deserve exactly what from me?

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

BTW...I got "it" correct...the law that I quoted.

The rest of what I stated was said in assumption...check my words. Assumptions are always subject to scrutiny as they may well be wrong. Mine were.

You're still an A$$...

Jason Maxwell
Jason Maxwell

“We have an active shooter team, should a shooting start, and we’re all trained on that,” said Taylor. How long does it take this "active shooter team" to assembly and get across campus to the classroom....5, 10, or 30 lives? I am sure A handful of students in a lot of the classes have been to Iraq or Afghanistan and have the experience and training to better deal with a lunatic shooter than the "active shooter team." Seconds matter when the "active shooter team" is minutes away.

tired of spin
tired of spin

mostly bull as I would just love to see the Vets taken to combat course with handguns and see how they qualify. Same for CCW's as whole new world when you leave paper punching and get into panicked shooting mess with crowds, guns going off inside rooms and just one tiny question, with all the shooting going on, how does one ID bad guys and good guys, Most of campus shooting, a tiny tiny number in real world, would make it impossible to ID who was good/bad with CCW's running about with guns out. REAL world is not as clean as some seem to try to spin it. Put most in closed room, simulate panic and guns going off, then tell us how well some kid will protect us all? Way to many myths out there on CCW's and how well trained they are, not even mandatory requal needed, nor even eye check. Who pays if they shoot wrong guy, at least in driving liability ins is mandatory. Way to much spin on the "hero's of CCW world. NOTE there is NO requirement in ANY state to report CCW illegal or criminal uses fo guns, why, NRA blocked it, So we do not even know how many with CCW abuse, illegal use of guns etc, Doubt it call local cops and as if mandatory to report shooter had CCW, So it seems no sound in forest if the CCW tree falls?

sallymander
sallymander

At least the woman at UM should be allowed to carry guns to protect themselves from football team rapists.

Jefferson
Jefferson

I just feel so bad for Ream, because the univeristy punished him more harshly than the law would have. All because he had a little accident with a shotgun that never should have been loaded or handled where the accident occurred, thus allowing him to become a poster child for firearms restrictions. I am a CCW holder, though I rarely carry. When the University has a zero tolerance policy for alcohol abuse (for students on and off campus) then you can have a discussion regarding CCW on campus. But if I were a woman at UM, I'd be carrying because the only way they would find out is if I needed it and then I wouldn't care if they found out.

anonymous201288
anonymous201288

Have I missed something ? Have Montana College Campuses become SO Dangerous the student's need to carry guns ? Great way to decided where you may or may not want to attend college. I really thinks it boils down to the MACHO image some feel they need. Take a Vote !

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

Yes...you have missed something. This movement that is underway is not just in Montana.

It has nothing to do with MACHO.

Jason Maxwell
Jason Maxwell

Hakon Montag you need to check your "facts"
"Last time I checked...you have to be 21 to buy a HANDGUN so there is no way you can get a CCW at 18...just sayin..."

Check again...you do have to be 21 to buy a HANDGUN, but as long as you are 21 you can buy a HANDGUN for someone 18. So state law says requires a minimum age for a ccw is 18. Any female, 18 years or older is allowed to carry a concealed weapon in their purse without a ccw in Montana.

"You would have to be a resident to get a CCW. I believe the resident law would also apply to open carry."

Wrong again... A Utah ccw is good for 32 states including Montana, and you don't have to be a Utah resident to get one. It is as easy as sitting through a Utah instructed class here in Montana and sending in your papers.

So get your facts right "just sayin...."

Tracker
Tracker

It's useless. He's completely incapable of ever admitting he's wrong, even when irrefutable facts are presented to him.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

I'm not incapable of admitting I'm wrong. Are you? I quoted the federal law.

The federal law is what it is.

You have simply circumvented the federal requirements (law) by using state laws, and going around the federal laws. If said underage persons were to ever be confronted by federal agents...they would be arrested as being in violation of federal law. Being at a University which receives Federal Funding...it ain't going to work the way you envision.

These same state laws allow an ex-felon to own a gun in this state and others as well. I'm well versed in the laws both state and federal. I was simply using the federal requirements instead of the state requirements.

These people would not be able to go down to the local sporting goods store and legally buy a handgun...but they can legally buy a handgun through private sales or be given a handgun from a relative or some other person who may or may not have bought it the "federal way".

Taking their weapon into any Federal Venue...puts them into the Federal Cross-hairs.

tired of spin
tired of spin

About the "#@ states" issue of CCW! How many of them make it mandatory to attend gun class's and fire shots, how many require min of 50 shots. Please post results staring with FL, GA>

BJG1
BJG1

Why not, most peope who willingly live in Montuckey are at least 100 years behind the times in their thinking anyway and most ot the hillbillies that live here think guns are just the way to solve a problem. But when a U of M student decides he'll take out a professor for a bad grade or show some other guy that he can't mess with "his" girl by blowing a hole in him, don't go saying how "awful" it is. Guns DO NOT BELONG AT SCHOOLS.

Jason Maxwell
Jason Maxwell

BJG1 "when a U of M student decides he'll take out a professor for a bad grade or show some other guy that he can't mess with "his" girl by blowing a hole in him" If a student decides he is going to do this he is going to regardless of being able to bring a gun to school or not. But when It does happen why not let the students who have gone through training to get their concealed weapon permit have a chance to defend themselves and others against these nut jobs. I guarantee anyone who gets a permit keeps it quiet that they have one and there are now and have been concealed weapons on campus.

Roger
Roger

Excellent reply - BJG1 is just too simple-minded to figure that out himself. People who intend to commit a crime will not follow gun control laws.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

Well by yer reckonin' we all should be about dead by now. We should jes be a dropping like flies accordin' to ya'all.

So what gives?

Either your attitude is way off base...or we have the highest crime/death rate on the planet?

Guess which one is correct?

superiornative
superiornative

An armed society is a polite society. Criminals will always break laws and law abiding citizens will always follow the rules. It doesn't matter what laws you put forward. When I was in college they had a "gun Locker" that could be access from noon to five. So you want to go hunting in the morning you had to get your guns out the day before. Then you were not in compliance. Eventually we just left them in our rigs or rooms full time. Guess what no one got shot! Amazing what people can accomplish isn't it?

Delta
Delta

It also bothers me how many people see differences between college students, criminals and ordinary residents of Montana. A lot of people assume the worst from the students, but assume the best from potential criminals. Many of these students are not just “college kids”. They make your coffee, deliver your newspaper and stock shelves at the grocery store. We live and work in your community and putting us in a box and labeling it, “drunk and immature” is narrow thinking. And if we are so immature then where is the line that keeps us from being criminals. It can be one simple action which can turn an immature university student into a dangerous criminal. The idea that college students are too dangerous to arm is self-defeating. If we are too dangerous, then how do we protect ourselves?

Delta
Delta

Even the younger students, who might take part in more parties than the older students, do not spend their time carousing, inebriated, around campus. During the day or night most students you see will be going to the library, gym the Food Zoo or their dorm room. And of course there will be groups of students who have been drinking. But drunken people walking around campus is the same as drunken people walking around downtown. There is already a law prohibiting carrying a firearm while intoxicated, which the state seems to consider adequate.

Delta
Delta

I think a lot of the commenters are exaggerating the potential for drunken, immature students to create dangerous situations. Except for in the dormitories, there is not a lot of drinking on campus, so a solution to that would be to not allow guns in dormitories. The drunken parties are most often off-campus, where firearms are not controlled by the university. The idea that all firearms on campus would be carried by immature students is also overblown. There are a significant number of non-traditional students who attend the university. They can range in age from me, at 25, to men and women who are in their 50’s and worked at the Frenchtown pulp mill before it closed.

Delta
Delta

As a 25 year old who lives off-campus I think I should be allowed to carry when I am at school. People are worried about drunken students but, except for in the dormitories, students aren't getting drunk on campus. So don't allow guns to be stored in dorm rooms. The general university grounds are not the scene of drunken partying, during the day or night. It is just a lot of students walking to the library, gym, or food zoo. Also, there are a decent number of non-traditional students who attend the university. By this I mean vets getting out of the military, single mothers and folks who worked at the Frenchtown paper mill. We range in age from myself at 25 to men and women in their 50's. It also bothers me that some commenters assume the worst of students, then assume the best of potential criminals. We all fall into one group until one of us breaks the law.

Rob M
Rob M

Here's the thing, and you really can't argue it. Whether or not there is a law passed allowing people to carry on campus only affects those of us that choose to follow the law. ANYONE that is going to come on campus with the intent of causing harm is NOT going to care about whether there is a law allowing guns on campus or not. Generally those that would commit murder have no regard for the law. I thought that was obvious.

sallymander
sallymander

Before guns are allowed on campus first they should allow them in the legislature for a few years.
After the first massacre then they should decide whether to allow them on campus.

Grouse Feather
Grouse Feather

Guns should be allowed on campus only if the carrier is drunk and has a violent history.

accobra
accobra

So you post this article on the same page as "18 year old charged with assault on um campus". Hell yes I think they should arm every woman that goes to school there and works there. Maybe these guys will get the message

montanamuralist
montanamuralist

Marbut and company are just insane. I mean it, just looney tunes people. Would be funny if they were not so serious....and dangerous. That being said, I understand the concern about safety of students and staff from a perpetrator like the Virginia Tech incident. Those are far and in between and the solution is more dangerous than the chance of an attack...pleas deal with serious issues and quit being a but boy for the NRA

anonymous201288
anonymous201288

WHY would they waste Tax Payers money on such a subject ? Ask a child and he would have a sane and positive reason . Don't they have more pressing problems like helping student's getting financing for their Education ?

MiddleFinger
MiddleFinger

Cripes. Marbutt would endorse kindergartners carrying guns.

There's no gun big enough to exercise Gary's boogieman. Filling our classrooms with gun tot'n students only makes contageous Gary's psychosis.

Just imagine a campus full of young Garys packing heat to class just itching to pull the trigger and be a hero instead of the perenerial looser he is.

However, if Gary is a model conceled carrying citizen, then maybe we should be scared enough pack ourselves for when, well, you know, Gary goes postal and all. And we know it is just a matter of time. And you can't say he didn't give off all the warning signs so there better not be anyone out there claiming to "never saw it coming."


Roger
Roger

Sure, go ahead and pack a gun - that's your Constitutional right. People like you scare me a lot more than Gary Marbut. States with shall-issue concealed-carry laws experience significantly lower rates of violent crime than states that do not allow it, so obviously your fears are unwarranted.

The number of guns in the US has increased by three times in the last 40 years, while fatal gun accidents have declined dramatically, and are about at an all-time low. And the number of murders in 2009 was about that of 1969 (15,241 vs. 14,760). Clearly guns don't cause crime.

Furthermore, guns also save lives; numerous studies, including one commissioned by the U.S. Dept. of Justice, show that Americans use firearms to thwart crime several million times each year, usually without a shot being fired.

Compared to America's 50 other largest cities, Chicago's murder rate was falling before the city banned handguns in 1983, but after the ban, that trend was suddenly and sharply reversed.

Despite record levels of gun ownership, and an all-time high of states with "shall issue" concealed-carry laws, violent crime is at a 35-year low. Since adopting "shall issue" laws, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Nevada, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and Virginia have had decreases in violent crime ranging from 26 to 53 percent. More anti-gun laws didn't do that - more enforcement of laws against violent crime did it, plus the fact that criminals have more to fear from potential victims who may be packing a pistol. That's good..

HelenWheels
HelenWheels

I'm not going to argument the merits of allowing students to have concealed weapons on campus, but I wish one argument would be put to rest: in case of an assault by a shooter, other weapons carried by citizens are not helpful. "The fog of war" makes careful snap decisions unlikely and more bystander deaths probable. In the Empire State Building shooting in New York City in August, nine bystanders were injured solely by police weapons. That's right, trained officers injured bystanders. Imagine what would have happened if marginally trained citizens had been firing. An armed citizen at the Gabby Giffords shooting admitted that he almost shot the wrong person. Gary Taylor, chief of police at UM, made sense when he said: “We have an active shooter team . . . Should we respond to an active shooting and we’re looking for someone with a weapon, and all of a sudden we have three armed students in a room, it makes it hard to determine in that split second who’s the shooter and who’s not.” Fog of War.

Roger
Roger

I disagree - in the right hands, a gun could mitigate the damage caused by a shooter, whereas if only the shooter is armed, almost certainly more damage will occur. Back when I attended UM, there was a rifle team and a pistol team. However, I admit that allowing guns in the dorms makes me a little uneasy.

HelenWheels
HelenWheels

You said it yourself: in the right hands. I assume trained police officers are "the right hands", but even in theirs, many bystanders were wounded in the Empire State Building shooting. The chief of the UM police is not in favor of the change. See his comments in the article.

I am not opposed to concealed carry if that's what citizens want. I just don't think the presence of concealed weapons increases public safety. If it did, open carry would be an even greater deterrence, but no one seems to be advocating general open carry.

tired of spin
tired of spin

Well said by the Chief, but that removes the "Bond, James Bond" image all to may have as guess most would be embarrassed and laughed at while "packing the big irons". Besides NRA gets more money for their employers; the gun mfgs for CCW stuff. They even support states with NO requirement to fire on shot or as few as 10. Anyone who is familiar with handguns for any time, knows that is about or more as dangerous as bad guys with guns.

R U KIDDING
R U KIDDING

I can fill this entire comment section with cases the refute your naive views and comments!

MTminded
MTminded

From the article: “Things have run smoothly with our current policy and procedures,” said Kevin McRae, associate commissioner of higher education for the Montana University System.
And..
Marbut argues that current laws leave students and faculty vulnerable to others with ill intentions.

Marbut and like gun advocates want to presuppose a problem where none exists. They see a potential shooter behind every bush or hunkered in every bell tower. They promote guns because they like guns, but ignore public safety.

Been There makes a valid point: we are witnessing a current generation (or perhaps generations) who are desensitized to what guns can do. We are too deeply a gun culture now. Visit any video rental store and roughly calculate the number of dvd covers that depict guns and/or gun violence, in full view of children no less. Why promote the possibility of gunplay on our college campuses? Making guns more accessible only ups the possibility of someone, the wrong someone, getting shot.

Marbut and his band would be better served at finding creative and effective methods for keeping guns out of the hands of those most likely to harbor “ill intentions”. Addressing a symptom of a problem rarely has lasting results of eliminating the actual problem, whether that problem be real or merely perceived.

wes d
wes d

A perfect example of what to expect if we elect these right wingers. Like the last legislature who wasted time and money on non issues like spear hunting, this to is a non-issue to waste time on. C'mon people!

Tronski
Tronski

What this guys said. non-issue. not applicable to national debt, job creation, national security, fiscal cliff or an other issue that actually affects my life.

syorkmt
syorkmt

Are you kidding me? With all the alcohol, drugs, and lack of maturity we observe already going on on/off campus and in campus dorms/fraternities.......we are proposing this? I am not against guns.....but against stupidity. Those college students who have solid maturity and the right to attending UM in a safe environment do not deserve the threat of guns being readily available to students who use substances....and are under the influence. Let's be realistic about the what we know about crazy....and know this idea if allowed to happen will end up as another UM public image disaster.

R U KIDDING
R U KIDDING

Hakon- A few corrections to your comments. 1)-You need only to be 18 yrs old to carry a concealed weapon with a permit, and open carry, in the State of Montana, w/ 6mo. residency. The CCW is really only required in less than 10% of Montana; city limits or incorporated areas where required. 2)- If you have a concealed carry permit from any other state, Montana will recognize it, reciprocity. http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/montana.aspx BTW, I don't have a problem with an 18yr old fighting for my freedom in the middle east, and I don't have a problem with a responsible 18yr old carrying here in Montana.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

Last time I checked...you have to be 21 to buy a HANDGUN so there is no way you can get a CCW at 18...just sayin...

The only type of HANDGUN that is available to be bought by someone who isn't 21 is a BLACK POWDER gun...

"Gun Control Act of 1968" (Public Law 90-618, 9,B1)

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --

(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

truckdriver
truckdriver

when seconds count ,LEO'S are only minutes away. Why are you people fear mongering ? As Hakon Montag said " you have to be 21 for a ccw " it's not like a 18 year old is going to be carrying a concealed weapon.
I hate to say this ,But the young ones are the ones that have most of the party's ion the dorms.

COMMON SENSE
COMMON SENSE

Has the UM recently acquired a shooting range? Are they now teaching classes in gunsmithing or have they commissioned their own militia group? If not, I fail to see the wisdom of allowing a bunch of collage students to arm up on campus. I am a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment and I myself own a large collection of legally acquired firearms. I also believe in COMMON SENSE when it comes to responsible gun ownership. I have nothing against the idea of students OWNING guns, but one has to question the wisdom of allowing a student body to arm up. especially one where many seem to not understand the simple words NO means NO! Let Campus security and other LE's carry the guns, I get the impression they will be more responsible with them. Consider this equation boys and girls, GUNS + ALCOHOL + PARTY = BANG BANG! CHAOS & DISASTER! Oh yeah, UM is a STATE RUN FACILITY. You can't take guns into the county courthouse or the state capitol building or any other type of school, WHY HERE?

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

So you get to decide when or IF someone else has COMMON SENSE?

Uh huh...

COMMON SENSE
COMMON SENSE

Common sense is the same across the board, hence the word COMMON! it is not a judgment or a matter to be judged. it is a COMMON wisdom among intelligent individuals. I'm sorry to see that WISDOM and INTELLIGENCE are apparently not COMMON to YOU!

BWO
BWO

Yes, because college freshmen are known for their stability?! Can you imagine armed Griz Players? Really? Marbut is beyond idiocy.

Roger
Roger

I can see allowing licensed concealed-carry on campus, because, as Rep. Kerns says, no law will prevent people who have no respect for the law from packing a concealed weapon. Also, a tip to Missoulian employees - there is no decimal point in gauge designation; for example, it's not ".20 -ga.", it's "20-ga."

Been There
Been There

This college group is a generation desensitized to violence due to television, video games, etc. When I was on campus, I would have felt more afraid of my fellow students than an outside attack. I think this is a really bad idea. Not all gun owners are responsible and play by the rules. It has absolutely nothing to do with the constitutional right to bear arms. It has more to do with common sense and extra work for law enforcement. It creates an atmosphere of fear on compus.

Still Here
Still Here

What a hair brain idea, to allow weapons into the dorm rooms. Just makes a person want to go and vote for the chief Hair Brain Gary Marbut who thinks this idea is good. Lets repeal all the drinking and driving laws while we are at it. I believe and support the Second amendment and gun ownership rights but people like Gary Marbut, have no common sense what so ever. Just think folks, we get a chance to elect a few more of these wing nuts in the legislature. Then when we elect well the chief nuts, Hill and Fox, and we all get to carry guns, Lets allow kids to carry guns in public schools, that will get rid of the bully problems.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

Your post is a fine example of using extremes to prevent addressing reality.

You still must address the reality.

Even "on campus" you would have to be 21 to carry a pistol. You would have to be a resident to get a CCW. I believe the resident law would also apply to open carry.

As for long guns, you have to be 18, and a resident.

I would guess that not many college students have actual residency in Montana. This is another beef they have with voting.

Tracker
Tracker

As usual, your post is a fine example of mistaking your impressions for facts.

Hakon Montag impression: "I would guess that not many college students have actual residency in Montana. This is another beef they have with voting."

Fact: 70 percent of UM students are Montana residents. 30 percent are from out of state or international students.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

So fine...70%...still have to abide by open carry-CCW-and AGE laws don't they?

Of course they do.

So what exactly is your complaint? Someone who is OF AGE shouldn't be allowed to follow the LAW?

I thought so...

Jason Maxwell
Jason Maxwell

Also Hakon Montag, you don't have to be a resident of MT to carry. Most carries form Montana prefer to get the Utah permit because it covers more states then the Montana permit. Way to be uninformative.

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