HELENA – A state representative from Missoula is introducing a bill to revise Montana’s DUI law to account for people driving under the influence of marijuana.

Republican Rep. Doc Moore says his House Bill 168 provides a legal limit for the amount of THC – the active ingredient in marijuana – that can be in a person’s blood while they’re operating a motor vehicle.

Moore plans to introduce his bill in the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday morning.

(41) comments

oldie
oldie

What a surprise, the so-called small government Republicans see a desperate need for yet one more new law to add to the mountain of laws they already have. Was there ever even the slightest doubt in anybody's mind that this story would prove out your first suspicions that this was sure to be another Republican initiative? If so, grow up.

So now Doc Moore of Missoula wants to "measure" marijuana influence? Uh huh, and what's next Doc, the criminal penalties that are sure to follow? What are you thinkin' then, the death penalty maybe? That sound about right?

I don't know how many times it has to happen, but someday people are going to have to realize that if you take away somebody else's freedoms, you shouldn't be surprised when somebody else comes around to start taking away yours.

Doc Moore, I would venture to say, would probably cry murder if someone tried to take away his guns. But he wouldn't think twice about taking away the marijuana pipe of the guy next door. Or the cigarette, or the six pack, or the oxycodone, or internet access, or Huckleberry Finn for God sakes. That's what they do, Republicans. They pass law, after law, after law, restricting other peoples' freedoms.

When are we ever going to learn? Small government Republicans? My achin' arches! There's no such thing.

montanarockhound
montanarockhound

It is already illegal to drive under the influence, Live and Let Live. I think the idea is to provide a legal standard. I think it is interesting that no one has mentioned that several of the states where specific DUI standards for THC are being put in place are the same ones that have largely decriminalized marijuana use. As someone who would like to federal decriminalization, I think that moving toward basic, public safety minded regulation of THC is a good move. I do not think we will ever see effective public support for decriminalization without addressing some of these issues.

live and let live
live and let live

Southwest La. sees hike in traffic deaths
Published 5:38 am, Wednesday, January 16, 2013
LAKE CHARLES, La. (AP) — Troopers say prescription drug use contributed to the increase in traffic deaths that State Police Troop D investigated in 2012.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Southwest-La-sees-hike-in-traffic-deaths-4198343.php#ixzz2IKSW4na7

live and let live
live and let live

Drug-related deaths now outnumber traffic fatalities in the U.S., with the rise driven by an increase in prescription narcotic overdoses, The Los Angeles Times reported Sunday.
Government data showed there were more deaths caused by drug use than there were motor vehicle fatalities in 2009. There were at least 37,485 drug-related fatalities that year, according to preliminary data compiled by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Most major causes of preventable death are in decline, the newspaper reported, however drugs were an exception.
The death toll from drugs has doubled in the past decade, with one life lost every 14 minutes. Traffic accidents, however, have been dropping for decades due to investments in auto safety, the report said.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/09/18/us-drug-related-deaths-outnumber-traffic-fatalities/#ixzz2IKS9Kubi

live and let live
live and let live

David Moore, (Doc) is a disabled auto mechanic, not a doctor. Does he realize that his bill will require our police to drag everyone they suspect of smoking marijuana to the emergency room and hang around while a needle is jabbed in the arm of their suspect by hospital personnel. Is this how we want our police and medical professionals spending their time. Clearly when David spoke about the need for more jobs, he meant more cops, more jailers and more medical personnel at taxpayer expense. The following is a 2010 study analyzing the effect of legalization on traffic fatalities.... To date, 16 states have passed medical marijuana laws, yet very little is known about their effects. Using state-level data, we examine the relationship between medical marijuana laws and a variety of outcomes. Legalization of medical marijuana is associated with increased use of marijuana among adults, but not among minors. In addition, legalization is associated with a nearly 9 percent decrease in traffic fatalities, most likely to due to its impact on alcohol consumption. Our estimates provide strong evidence that marijuana and alcohol are substitutes. Daniel I. Rees University of Colorado Denver Department of Economics Campus Box 181 P.O. Box 173364 Denver, CO 80217-3364 USA E-mail: Daniel.Rees@ucdenver.edu http://ftp.iza.org/dp6112.pdf

DonaldM
DonaldM

Evidence for cannabis dependence comes from a number of sources including epidemiological surveys,[5][6][7][8] studies of long-term users,[9][10] clinical trials of people seeking treatment,[11][12][13] controlled experiments on withdrawal and tolerance [14][15][16] and laboratory studies on cannabis brain mechanisms.[17] Budney et al. state that "clinical and epidemiological studies indicate that cannabis dependence is a relatively common phenomenon associated with significant psychosocial abnormality. Basic research has identified a neurobiological system specific to the actions of cannabinoids. Human and non-human studies have demonstrated a valid withdrawal syndrome that is relatively common among heavy marijuana users".[18

DSM-IV Cannabis-related disorders

Cannabis
305.20 Abuse
304.30 Dependence
With physiological Dependence
Without physiological Dependence
292.89 -Induced anxiety disorder
292.11 -Induced psychotic disorder, with delusions
292.12 -Induced psychotic disorder, with hallucinations
292.89 Intoxication
292.81 Intoxication delirium
292.9 -Related disorder NOS

"Individuals with Cannabis Dependency have compulsive use and do not generally develop physiological dependence, although tolerance to most of the effects of cannabis has been reported in individuals who use cannabis chronically. There have also been some reports of withdrawal symptoms, but they have not yet been reliably shown to be clinically significant."
DSM-IV 1994.

A lot of research has been done on cannabis since 1994.

bowtiesarecool
bowtiesarecool

Ok, no physiological dependence, some reports of withdrawal symptoms(with no mention of the severity, that would include difficulty sleeping, for example) that have not been shown to be significant, what does this have to do with driving? Why not quote NHTSA research on marijuana impairment?

yunfei
yunfei

Well controlled scientific studies have been published that a blood level of 15 ng/ml of THC objectively impair cognition, the same as similar studies used to define the level of blood alcohol that causes impairment. Rep. Moore is absolutely correct in having the THC level that causes impairment be part of the law that protects us from impaired drivers.

bowtiesarecool
bowtiesarecool

Why not cite the study, so that it can be verified? That adds a lot of credibility to a claim.

punkrock
punkrock

Sounds like one for Myth Busters to test.

campana
campana

Nothing like more bureaucracy from a Republican, the party of "small government". A daily user of MJ would not be "impaired" regardless of the THC content of his blood. Plus, this will require a ton of medical testing to establish a quantifiable threshold, which would require the feds to reschedule the drug. Good luck, but I don't see this bill going anywhere.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

It's nice to know that some people actually understand the drug and what it does.

Mojoh
Mojoh

There is no actual legitimate study that shows cannabis has a discernible negative impact on driving. This is pure fold "wisdom".

Bandit218
Bandit218

So if its stored in the fat cells would a blood test only pick up the currently smoked joint?

DonaldM
DonaldM

No. It would show the total level of THC present in the blood at the time tested. When it was ingested is irrelevant. If the driver is impaired it makes no difference when he smoked a joint. Impaired is impaired.

THC stored in the fat would not show. However, I have seen MJ addicts with the THC level declining with no use, engage in heavy physical activity which would release THC from the fat into the blood and effect the individual and increase the level of THC in the blood.

THC can be stored in the body fat for up to a month.

To get a meaningful THC test result the urine creatinine has to be simultaneously measured, also. A low urine creatinine level would give an artificially low THC value and vice versa.

Dopers, knowing that they are soon to be faced with a MJ test will often drink a lot of water to dilute the urine to achieve a lower THC level. This also dilutes the urine creatinine. So, if we receive a test result with a low urine creatine level we know the actual THC level is higher than the test indicates.

Likewise, a MJ test early in the AM when urine is usually more concentrated, would give an inflated THC result. Seeing a higher than normal urine creatinine level would show this.

Some addicts, knowing that they are to be tested, will get urine from a non-user friend and sneak it into the restroom where they are to provide their sample and pour the friends urine into the container with their(the doper's) name on it for testing.

This is why many testers require an "observed" sample and why they also have thermometers on the side of their receptacle to make sure the urine is at body temp. and not cooled, as it would be if a friends urine is being used.

Testing for THC can get complicated and needs to be done by people who know what they are doing.

DonaldM
DonaldM

I wasn't attentive enough and got off on Urine testing instead of blood testing. Sorry.

This link gives a good overview on drugs, urine, blood testing and how long in system.

http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/drugtestguide/drugtestdetection.html

Too much MJ CAN and DOES impair functioning, including driving. It makes Zombies out of some.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

So are people who drink alcohol regularly addicts as well?

Are people who drink coffee regularly caffeine addicts?

Marijuana is not physically addictive.

The only physically addictive substance on the planet that WILL KILL YOU from trying to quit using it via the COLD TURKEY METHOD...is alcohol.

DonaldM
DonaldM

Two errors:

MJ is physically addictive(DSM-IV)

"Cold turkey" stopping of Xanax can kill.

campana
campana

Donald... DSM-IV has a code for marijuana dependence, but that does not mean MJ is "physicaly addictive". If it is, then why do other drugs such as cocaine, amphetamine, and alcohol also have a code for withdrawal, but not MJ?

MontanaJim72
MontanaJim72

And Mr. Moore was elected to the legislature. He obviously doesn't understand that a test for marijuana use in the last couple hours is not the same as an alcohol test. Alcohol can be tested and give a positive indication of impairment. Marijuana can give a positive test from what the person did two weeks ago in their living room. Just curious, Mr. Moore, do you have any clue about the bill you introduced? I know the Republican party promised this session would be about jobs and the economy, but from what I've seen they are going to waste the first half, just like last time, trying to pass social issues. I can only hope Governor Bullock will throw out the crazy bills the Republican's can't help introducing and passing. It will be interesting to see how Sen. Essmann deals with his tea party when it hits the Senate. My guess says he doesn't care about medical evidence. If it has anti marijuana in it, it must be passed.

Wrongfully Evicted
Wrongfully Evicted

and watch out, whatever you do, for Pistol Packin' Mama.

Wrongfully Evicted
Wrongfully Evicted

I think this is an excellent idea. It will point out the stonies. Maybe we should make them drive low riders. At least they will look cool as we notice them doing 5.

MontanaNative1ed7
MontanaNative1ed7

funny

Wrongfully Evicted
Wrongfully Evicted

well hooray for Hollyweird. you Go Missoula!
ere

elkguy
elkguy

How about 0.00 since it's a illegal drug? What a waste of time.

Jon_w
Jon_w

The legal limit should be no thc in your system for driving. Driving after smoking an illegal drug should result in revocation of drivers license which should be the same standard for drunk driving.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

Why not just shoot them...

LiveLaughLove
LiveLaughLove

I have days/moments during which I could get onboard with that.

madtaxpayer
madtaxpayer

yup. drunk driving and stoned driving and prescription driving should all be treated the same. and 3 times caught should result in 1 year in jail! not 5, 10, 18, 25 times! This state is pathetic when it comes to drunk driving. just pathetic!

Annie O
Annie O

The easiest way to avoid being tested is not to drive impaired.

startingover
startingover

THC is detectable in the blood for a short time, usually a few hours, because it is rapidly metabolized into molecules known as metabolites. At least 80 different metabolites are formed from THC. These metabolites are stored in body fat and are gradually eliminated from the body through feces and urine.
www.about.com

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

I tried that approach and got slammed for it. Obviously some people don't want to know the facts.

lakeguy406
lakeguy406

It will never work. I have never seen a stoner pulled over for driving too slow ! Better make it a test for drivers on prescription narcotics, then you'd have something.

Joseph From Missoula
Joseph From Missoula

Sallymander is spot on. Also, since marijuana is federally listed as a Schedule 1 drug (even though it meets not one of the 3 criteria for a Schedule 1 drug), studies on one's ability to drive after smoking are few and those that have been done aren't scientifically reliable. We should all reject any law that limits behavior based on hearsay and attitude.

sallymander
sallymander

Sounds like Mr Moore needs to do some more research before he wastes the legislature's time.

Marijuana stays at high levels in a person's blood for up to a month. You can't tell if they used it in the last hour or a few weeks ago. A munchies test would give better results, just wave a Cheeto under their nose and measure how much of the cop's finger they bite off. This should correlate directly to the degree of stonedness.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

I see you're speaking from an immense understanding of the drug...(not) Did you get your knowledge base from the 'Reefer Madness' educational movie?

The 'high' from marijuana is relatively overrated. For first time, or occasional users, the high is more pronounced, but doesn't last 'for a month'. It may last for a few hours depending of course upon how much is consumed and in what fashion...inhalation or ingestion. The method of consumption will also affect the level of the 'high'. Inhalation gives a more pronounced high than ingestion.

For someone who uses it daily, for chronic pain management, the high is almost negligible as your body becomes accustomed to it relatively quickly. After a week of daily smoking it would have no more effect than having a beer or two in regard to the high, but it would still have the same pain management effects as first time use.

While it is true that the chemical stays in your fat cells for up to six weeks, it is not the presence in the fat cells that get you high. It is the immediate presence in the blood stream directly affecting the dopamine levels of the brain that cause the high. This level of activity in the brain subsides with time as the body absorbs the THC into the fat cells where it can then be secreted in your urine as a bodily waste product.

sallymander
sallymander

I didn't say the high lasts a month, I said it's detectable in a person's blood for up to a month. You need to improve your reading comprehension.

Edited by staff.

MontanaNative1ed7
MontanaNative1ed7

His reading comprehension won't improve until he stops watching FOX. Also he can't focus because he has a lot of "fight or flight" hormones in his blood stream. Fight and Flight hormones make a person nervous.....so they can't comprehend what they read because they are too nervous. Violent video games create fight or flight fear.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

My reading comprehension is fine. Maybe I should have simply said you have a bad attitude towards the drug and it's users. I was simply trying to offer a more enlightened understanding of what the drug actually does in a human body...for anyone that might actually be interested.

Same goes for MontanaNative1ed7 and the attitude they present on thread after thread.

Hakon Montag
Hakon Montag

P.S.

I don't watch FOX News.

madtaxpayer
madtaxpayer

LOL! Love this! I think the cheeto test would would well also!! HAAAAAA!! one beer does not get you drunk, one joint gets you stoned. time to bust the stoners who are driving!!! there doesn't need to be a test, cops should immediately arrest them if they smell pot. no testing, just put in jail.

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