Montana’s wolf-hunting season ended a month ago, but wolf-debating season continues unabated.

A dozen wolf advocates gathered at Caras Park on Monday to plead for restored Endangered Species Act protection for the predator, while their colleagues in Helena and five other state capitals demanded the attention of their respective governors with civil disobedience efforts.

Across the state line, Idaho legislators last week approved a year-round wolf hunting season on private land in most of the Panhandle region, from the Canadian border to the Salmon River. The Idaho State Fish and Game Commission also OK’d moving the start of wolf trapping season from Nov. 15 to Oct. 10.

And a week earlier, Montana Fish and Wildlife commissioners allowed landowners to kill wolves threatening their livestock or property without a permit. Montana hunters and trappers killed 230 wolves in the just-ended 2013-14 season.

All this is taking place as the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service considers delisting gray wolves throughout the Continental United States. Last week, 74 members of the U.S. House of Representatives asked Interior Secretary Sally Jewell to drop that plan. They cited an independent review of the USFWS delisting plan that found its research “preliminary and currently not the best available science.”

“Their management plan is rife with errors,” said Missoula protest organizer Seth Hogue of the recently formed Wolf and Wildlife Group. “It’s just a good-ol’-boy group.”

Hogue said similar protests were set for capitals in Idaho, Wyoming, Minnesota and Wisconsin, with supporting rallies in four more states, Germany and South Africa. He argued that returning gray wolves from the brink of extinction to a viable population “should be a cause for celebration, not a reason to open hunting season again.”

From the Higgins Avenue Bridge, a passing man yelled, “I stand in protest to the wolves.”

In the park, Blackfeet Headwaters Alliance board member and folk singer Jack Gladstone said more people need to give their voices to the fate of wolves. In Blackfeet Indian tradition, Brave Dog Society members borrowed from wolf characteristics as defenders of the tribe’s territory and community.

“Wolf medicine was the most important medicine in the Plains Indian tradition, and I’m told in the Salish, too,” Gladstone said. “I listen to ranchers and farmers who’ve experienced losses from wolves. I think they should be compensated. But this is not just a question of private property as much as an asset of our heritage. Those elk we value did not create themselves over the millennia. Predators, primarily the wolf, were agents of their present form.”

Roughly 5,000 gray wolves inhabit the mountains of Montana, Idaho and Wyoming, along with parts of Minnesota and Wisconsin. Token numbers have been found in Washington, Oregon and Utah. Montana alone has about 650 wolves, more than six times the federally required minimum population.

Gray wolves were placed under Endangered Species Act protection in 1975. Federal biologists reintroduced wolves to the mountains around Yellowstone National Park and in the Frank Church-River of No Return Wilderness in 1995 and 1996, while Canadian wolf populations naturally recolonized regions around Glacier National Park and the Rocky Mountain Front.

In 2011, Congress required USFWS to delist the wolf in Montana and Idaho despite ongoing court challenges to the agency’s management plan.

The peer review challenge to USFWS’ Lower-48 delisting plan prompted the agency to extend its public comment period. It closes on Thursday. For more information, go online to this story on Missoulian.com.

Reporter Rob Chaney can be reached at 523-5382 or at rchaney@missoulian.com.

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(129) comments

lupuscanis101
lupuscanis101

After spending nearly 15 minutes trying to and log in here to comment, and after submitting a 2,500 signatures signed petition to your Governor's office,, against the wolf slaughter in your state, its no wonder your state just keeps going against the peoples will.. SHAME ON YOU! Karma will be just and swift..

Lobo Bandito

Maybe the Governor doesn't care what OUT OF STATE people think. People who like to sue his state and waste millions of our dollars to "save" a wolf that has always been on the IUCN Red List as LEAST CONCERN. Do you think a politician in San Francisco would care if I collected 2,500 signatures from people in my state who wanted California to ban gay marriage? EXACTLY!!

Snowcrest

Are you making a threat of violence?
The reason I ask is Iceman is threatening to execute on live TV, a person who is against wolves, he also says the stock growers will be silenced permanently. He last year threatened our governor and the legislature on this site and I alerted the Missoulian and had it taken off.
Another pro-wolf blogger on this site threatened to use an AK-47 on cattle, which I alerted the Missoulian and they took it off, not to mention the death threat the Missoulian printed which was made against a county sheriff in N. Idaho that I had taken off when I reported it to the Missoulian. There seems to be a systematic theme to your membership which threatens violence to further your cause, can you elaborate on your comment what "just and swift" means?

Bittersweet
Bittersweet

It's called blowing smoke. 2500 signatures......funny.

BruceH59

A whole 2500 signatures of welfare queens. No wonder the Governor's office laugh at you. Wolves are worthless vermin pest equal to rats. The public you know the people actually living with the vermin pest are sick and tired of their dogs attacked, their children stalked, and their friends driven out of business so some immature drama queen losers can believe in fairy tale that wolves are magical. Time to grow up and deal with life. Pay up or shut up. Either pay for all the destruction wolves do or shut up. But you are Michael Vick wannabe you get off on your hero wolves attacking children dogs and killing them. How about you grow up and pay for all the vet bills your wolves have caused. Grow up or shut up.

AJ2001

Welfare queens, you mean the welfare cattle ranchers?

Lobo Bandito

Balance of Nature is a MYTH!!! http://tomremington.com/2013/04/24/top-wolf-scientist-charges-wolf-researchers-have-become-advocates-rather-than-scientists/
Funny that the pro wolf scientist Dr.Mech used to claim the balance of nautre was true and after decades of being proven wrong he finally admits that nature is more catastrophic than anything. Its funny because the Catastrophe Theory is what replaced the Balance of Nature Theory so so long ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_Nature

Ecology's Enduring Myth- Balance of Nature http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8853.html

Here is both the Rez's wolf plans. Take in mind they down play the plans to shield attacks from pro-wolf extremists and rightfully so. Those that are in the know are aware that in reality the management of wolves on the tribal lands are conducted a bit more aggressively :)
http://www.cskt.org/about/press/nrd_wolfmgmtplan061308.html
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/BlackfootTribeWolfManagementPlan.pdf

fisher99999

Humans starving is population control. The elk are there for the bears, cats, and wolves to survive on

Iceman9
Iceman9

Yes, they are. Unfortunately, some blunder-heads refuse to acknowledge that.

Lobo Bandito

Too bad some blunder heads don't realize that mankind has a right to exist and eat meat too. They hate mankind so much they make comments about wanting humans to starve to death. Eco terrorism at its finest. They just don't realize we are part of the food chain too. Truly out of touch with reality.

AJ2001

Lobo you seem to have learned the technique that if tell a distortion big enough that people will believe it. It's called propaganda, and it has an antidote. Knowledge.

Joby79

The type of wolf "management" these states are engaging in can be readily found on social media anti-wolf pages. These pages show photos of "sportsmen" proudly posing beside dead, tortured, and maimed wolves. They brag about gut-shooting them and making them suffer, as well as other brutal, sadistic acts.

There are wolf and coyote killing contests. Pregnant wolves and pups are being killed. There are extended hunting and trapping seasons, higher quotas, and wolves being hunted and trapped during breeding season. In 85% of Wyoming, wolves can be killed year round in any manner possible. Idaho just created a wolf control board, with a goal of killing 500 wolves in the state.

Wolves are shot, left to suffer in traps for days, choked in snares, poisoned, clubbed to death in traps, torn apart by dogs, shot from airplanes and helicopters, etc.

Wolves are being treated like vermin by these states instead of the ecologically valuable species that they are. They have an 1800's mindset, and want to drive wolves to the brink of extinction yet again.

It is all politically driven, and supported by the federal govt. And, most of it is being done on public land, which belongs to all of us and is supported by our tax dollars.

I encourage everyone to contact their Reps and Senators and let them know that this is unacceptable. Tell them you want federal protections restored for all gray wolves, as the states are clearly incapable of "managing" them.

Indeed, this is no way to treat an animal that is so important for the balance of nature--especially one that was taken off the Endangered Species List only 3 years ago via backroom political maneuverings that the Obama administration supported.

Wolves deserve much better than this. Federal protection needs to be restored now!

oldcowgirl

Missoulian what a bogus Poll you have set up for voting....Anyone person can vote multiple times, so this is not an accurate vote. If you want an accurate voting on anything make it a one VOTE only...... NO repeats.....As usual this newspaper makes its own rules.......Bias paper......what do you think??????

fisher99999

Sucks being the minority huh? You wolf haters are the minority and we the pro-wildlife patriots are the majority.

oldcowgirl

And you can Kiss my Mules South End.....LOL......

Iceman9
Iceman9

And your mule can kiss my South End, too.

LCHelenajr

I am going to have to give these groups a thumbs down on this. These pro wolf groups kept changing the rules and congress stepped in and put a stop to it. Wolves have never been endangered. There are thousands of them in the lower 48 and hundreds of thousands scattered across the globe.

Iceman9
Iceman9

Regional populations are the ones being called endangered. Look at the Mexican and Tibetan wolves for prime examples.

00dk

Iceman, obviously you are well versed in Canis lupus sub-species and know about the Distinct Population Segments (DPS) as it pertains to the ESA, therefore I assume you and the rest of America know that the endemic wolf to Yellowstone was the Northern Rocky Mountain Wolf (Canis lupus irremotus) (mistakenly called the Timber wolf by us locals) and they were the DPS the original 1980 Wolf Recovery Plan was intended for (and named after). Well, the feds said "FU Montana, WY & ID" and decided the MacKenzie Valley Wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis) (and also called the Canadian Grey wolf because they came from B.C.) was just as good (not to mention larger, more aggressive, more pack oriented, and INVASIVE) thus displacing the already fragmented smaller and more docile local wolf population. Contrary to what people viewing Montana through their computer screen think, there were a handful of NATIVE wolves here BEFORE the reintroduction of the WRONG WOLF. The Canadian wolf has truly made the "timber' wolf an endangered if not extinct "regional population" or DPS. You wanted the wolf so bad you didn't consider or care if it was the appropriate one to transplant. It is so backward that you advocate the extinction of our local wolves for your idealized "wolftopia". Anthropocentric at it's core, yet played off as pro-wildlife. You are truly anti-wolf as proven by total disregard to the native ones that evolved here. BOOOOO!

Lobo Bandito

Really ironic that the first wolf subspecies to be exterminated and sent into extinction in the last century was done by the hands of the Pro-wolf people. It is also ironic that they argue that it was the same wolf as the Canadian wolf. But that they themselves had it listed endangered as a distinct subspecies(The subspecies Canis lupus irremotus was listed as endangered on June 4, 1973, by the Secretary of the Interior. That listing was recorded in the Federal Register on that date, referenced as 38 FR 14678 which means Volume 38, Federal Register, page 14678) until they realized that would hinder their plan. Waiting for the few hundred surviving irremotus to repopulate the rockies naturally would take way too much time. They were in an hurry and would rather wipe the last of its kind of the planet in return for a faster and farther spread wolf utopia. Not to mention introduction would generate much more donations than repopulation of the local subspecies. Problem is even with this evidence they deny either that there were local wolves still alive, that they had a viable chance or that they were even a subspecies to begin with. Well senior biologist Edward A. Goldman classified the Northern Rocky Mountain wolf(canis lupus irremotus) in 1937. This went unchallenged for over half a century. The prowolf crowd had no problem labeling them endangered under this name. Then come time for the "endangered" and "experimental" wolf recovery plans they found out this was a game stopper so after a few months work they then reclassified 24 of North Americas wolf subspecies into just 5 subspecies. So sad these wolf pimps actually killed off the last of a wolf subspecies and not only that but got paid for it while bragging about their success. This was the largest fail of wildlife management in the last 100 years. Crazy thing is they are still promoting this failure. This is what happens when people make decisions based on emotions and not true science.

codycowboy

Too bad we can't say the same about Elk and Cows and Sheep! None of these animals have had any truly adverse effects as the result of Wolf reintroduction. All have adequate numbers (always have and always will) and antiwolf people seem to scream just as loud about all of the problems these animals are having just like the prowolf people are. The only difference is that Wolf populations are now being decimated in the US simply because of human hatred and intolerance, not for any scientific or biological reason. That is not happening to any other animal species in the US regardless of whether we are talking wild or domestic animals.

BruceH59

So 12 lunatics from the wolf cult were crying like spoiled brats and that is news story? 12 hahahahahaha that is pathetic. I wonder how many people were laughing at the grossly ignorant fools.
I, on the other hand, can't possibly feel sorry for fools in the wolf cult. Disgusting lowlifes who idolize wolves like their gods are the worst kind of human beings not in prison. Those wolves have the same type of killing sprees that Satan has. Which, in theory, makes those who value them more than other wildlife, Satan-worshippers.

Iceman9
Iceman9

The only Satan-worshippers here are the anti-wolf elk hoes like BruceH59, elkguy, and their associates.

Lobo Bandito

That means very little coming from a wolf pimp.

JacksUsername
JacksUsername

I'm glad to see that the anti-wolf crowd's of ID, MT and WY are being called out for what they truly are: conspiracy theory crazed white supremacists. When you're being watched by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group, you know your politics and actions have gone severely awry.
No surprise, the cowards in the photo wearing KKK hoods with a dead wolf removed their Facebook page but the 'outfitter's' website is still in working order.
The anti-wolf/anti-environmental crowd is quick to call environmentalists 'terrorists' and this proves exactly who the real terrorists are. Just because you wave an American flag doesn't make you an American when you hide behind a backwards, white trash group of 'people' such as the KKK.
"The embodiment of the extreme nature of these sentiments came this winter when a group of men wearing Klan-like hoods posed with the corpse of a freshly killed wolf and an American flag and then posted it on Facebook. The page that published the picture belonged to a couple of Wyoming outfitters, who later explained that they were harkening back to Western vigilantism: “Trying to make a statement!…Frontier Justice! Wyoming hunters are fed up!”"
I'm glad to see that the out of control anti-wolf group has garnered such national attention and are being watched and hopefully taken to court soon.
Link to the Southern Poverty Law Center's article on the regions out of control anti-wolf groups: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/03/25/long-running-conspiracist-fears-still-fuel-anti-wolf-sentiments-in-mountain-states/#disqus_thread

AJ2001

Jacks thank you for saying our loud what we all know, that the links between right wing anti-wildlifers, the Tea Party, and the white supremacy movement are strong, the elephant in the room. The fear-mongering, name-calling, hate-mongering racism and anti-wildlife groups who are behind this new push to push all boundaries of decency. Since Obama came into office there has been a rebound of these groups:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/20/report-links-tea-party-to-white-supremacist-groups

http://bluenc.com/report-connects-tea-party-leaders-white-supremacist-groups

http://www.examiner.com/article/documentary-shows-link-between-white-supremacy-groups-and-tea-party-movement

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/20/AR2010102004020.html

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/20/naacp-releases-report-extremism-tea-party/

Wolftracker

A dozen protestor? Wow....a whole dozen?
I bet the Legislature will go into extra sessions.

BJackson

It figures, the Missoulian always says, they post most messages, but once again, my message from very early on Tuesday, was not posted and it was not attacking anyone. I guess, I will have to give them a call.

Joby79

Montana as well as the other Northern Rockies states have proven again and again that they are entirely incapable of "managing" wolves. Despite all of the data that consistently shows that wolves are not having severe impacts on livestock or ungulates, these states continue their politically driven, senseless killing of wolves.

Indeed, it is the livestock and hunting industries, and the politicians who serve them that are driving wolf policy. These people have not progressed into the 21st century. They possess an 1800's mindset and are determined to drive gray wolves to the brink of extinction yet again.

The numbers set by the federal govt. were arrived at in the 1980's, and have no relevance regarding what we now know about wolves, Indeed, credible biologists have repeatedly stated that 10-15 breeding pairs is not a sustainable number for wolves.

It's time for the wildlife agencies in these states todo their job and implement policies that recognize the ecological importance of wolves, and stop pandering to the livestock and hunting industries.

Iceman9
Iceman9

Unfortunately, the livestock and hunting interests back those who are in power. Those special interests need to be cut off from having a voice. The sooner they're silenced permanently, the better.

Lobo Bandito

The sooner you take your meds, the better.

Joby79

Montana as well as the other Northern Rockies states have proven again and again that they are entirely incapable of "managing" wolves. Despite all of the data that consistently shows that wolves are not having severe impacts on livestock or ungulates, these states continue their politically driven, senseless killing of wolves.

Indeed, it is the livestock and hunting industries, and the politicians who serve them that are driving wolf policy. These people have not progressed into the 21st century. They possess an 1800's mindset and are determined to drive gray wolves to the brink of extinction yet again.

The numbers set by the federal govt. were arrived at in the 1980's, and have no relevance regarding what we now know about wolves, Indeed, credible biologists have repeatedly stated that 10-15 breeding pairs is not a sustainable number for wolves.

It's time for the wildlife agencies in these states todo their job and implement policies that recognize the ecological importance of wolves, and stop pandering to the livestock and hunting industries.

Iceman9
Iceman9

Unfortunately, the livestock and hunting interests back those who are in power. Those special interests need to be cut off from having a voice. The sooner they're silenced permanently, the better.

Lobo Bandito

Correct!! We learned from our enemy!!

Iceman9
Iceman9

Meaning you learned how to cheat the system to get your way. Disgraceful.

Lobo Bandito

We have to fight fire with fire. Something has to be done when districts like 203 go from 200 elk tags to ZERO in about 3 years. What is disgraceful is that some of you people would rather see those 200 elk feed 10 non native wolves VS the 200 families of humans it used to sustain before wolves moved in. Not to mention most of those 200 families live in poverty, literally. I guess you only have a heart for animals that look like your dog and not elk or humans. Easy as its not your child who lives in poverty. Too bad you just can't grasp reality and demand to live in the yellowstone fairy tale.

fisher99999

Non native wolves? Ignorance. I would rather the wolves eat them elk. Humans are overpopulated/

Lobo Bandito

WRONG!!

DoNotLieToMe

Thanks again Missoulian for showing your true colors. Giving attention to this is a joke. Twelve people showed up for their protest! That pretty much sums it up nicely. I will dedicate the next wolf I shoot to gadfly, just because.

Comment deleted.
fisher99999

You the man!

Comment deleted.
Lobo Bandito

Still, won't stop hundreds of wolves from being executed in your name, just this year alone. ;)

Iceman9
Iceman9

You're condemning yourself out of your own mouth.

Lobo Bandito

No Iceman I'm not condemning myself. The hundreds of wolf hunters and dozens of FWP that work wolf control and "execute" wolves are liberating the suppression of our ungulate populations. Between them they will kill 300-400 wolves per year. That means on average, in the state of Montana 1 wolf is executed every day. It is you who condemn yourself by stating you will kill a human being.

Comment deleted.
fisher99999

That's the only good kind of wolf hater.

Gadfly

Hunters Lead War on Wildlife and I would add ranchers and wildlife agencies: Hunters and trappers have been calling themselves conservationists lately a lot it seems. They cite early conservationists and early efforts to save game species (birds and ungulate herds) and fishes and on-going efforts to save game animals. Some early "hunter-trapper conservationists" of considerable note were early pioneers in conservation: Teddy Roosevelt was one but he also founded numerous national parks and wildlife refuges to protect wildlife from hunter-trapper sportsmen. Aldo Leopold was one, hunter and naturalist, who became more enlightened about protecting the wolf and other predators and their place in the ecology. George Grinnell was one and also founded national parks including Glacier. I have met and know some hunters that like a balanced ecology of predators and prey, a true wilderness in which to hunt, and who disagree with trophy hunting and even disgusted by it-- and one who compares killing wolves to shooting his neighbor's German Shepherd. But such hunter-sportsmen are far from often on the landscape; most have a very irrational, uniformed, visceral hate of wolves in particular and predators in general and want to minimize, marginalize, or exterminate them and essentially farm ungulates and game birds. Some even hate raptors who take their birds and their fish, as they view ungulates as their elk or deer. Most sportsmen and state wildlife agencies, it seems, want to marginalize the main predators (wolf, lion, grizzly). Nebraska only has about 70 cougars yet is embarking on a vigorous "management" campaign, as is SD with only 170 cougars. Alaska is killing wolves just outside national parks. Since wolves have been turned over to state "management" 2700 wolves have been killed plus another 3435 by the rogue USDA Wildlife Services which kills a million animals a year in the name of control. Organizations of sportsmen such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation has offered bounties and cooperative agreements with agencies for wolf killing and the Montana Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife recently donated $15,000 to Wildlife Services USDA, a renegade killing wildlife agency that kills (shoots, traps, poisons) over a million animals annually. Sportsmen organizations are silent on predators if not unashamedly hostile but loud on protecting and farming game species. There are wildlife killing contests going on all over the USA and in some places, like TX, weekly. Hunters even call these killing contests conservation, killing coyotes for instance to save deer. States like ID-MT-WY-WI-MI have vigorous unscientific, political drive-down-the-wolf-population policies, trapping, extended seasons, and liberal kill policies year around. Much of this wildlife killing is done by trapping, a barbaric, horrendous way to kill and mostly unjustified. Trapping on public land is mostly done for "recreational" sports killing, the fur trade, trophies, with little regard for ecology and the interests of the general public, wildlife viewing, safety of the general public, and it takes a large toll in collateral damage to non-targeted animals, and is overly touted as need to control. There is some need for handling “nuisance animals” but the notion is abused by too little hesitation to evaluate the need, too little scientific management, too little nonlethal means used; basically trapping is a quick draw response and such a barbaric, inherently cruel means of “management” it should under tight scrutiny and used only by wildlife agencies sparingly. There are around 7000 trappers in Montana alone doing it mostly for the fur trade and recreationally.

http://thoughtsfromthewildside.blogspot.com/2014/03/killing-wolves-hunter-led-war-against.html?m=1

http://exposingthebiggame.wordpress.com/2014/03/06/whither-the-hunterconservationist/

http://exposingthebiggame.wordpress.com/2014/03/05/sportsmen-donate-15000-to-wildlife-services

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrdc.org%2Fwildlife%2Fanimals%2Fwolves%2Fpredatorcontrol.asp&ei=Vm8cU8mrB43koATLsIGwAg&usg=AFQjCNFMOpGmVCcBkLO7uo7inKHveszrlA&bvm=bv.62578216,d.cGU

Gadfly

We need the Endangered Species Act and Environmental Protection Act to protect us from ourselves in preserving what is left, about 5% of true wilderness with half of that in Alaska. Continuing encroachment is what we have on wildlife with leasing permits on national forests and BLM lands, 772 permits on national forests in Montana and 3776 on BLM land with 23,000 such permits in 16 western states, people living in (cabins in national forests) and close to wilderness and demanding safety for themselves and their families and critters, easy access to wilderness, on-going seasonal mass killing of wildlife (hunting and trapping as recreational opportunities), fracking and gas lines, deforestation, killing of wildlife because it is considered a threat or too familiar with all the humans encroaching on them, USDA Wildlife Services killing for ranchers and farmers, anti-wolf hysteria by sportsmen and ranchers and the wildlife agencies (wolf jihad). It is called "civilization"; the march of civilization started with settlements into farming and ranching and the ensuing war on flora and fauna continuing to this day. Conservationists, not enough the wildlife agencies, are trying to hold the line, set some aside, a line in the sand, which is obviously being pushed back by settlement around wilderness areas, hunting and trapping traditions, extraction industries, ranchers and sportsmen, and wildlife agencies who make many political decisions regarding wildlife. We are likely to see state and national political tactics to repeal and undermine ESA and EPA and install local control of national interests.


References:
http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/mailbag/endangered-species-act-one-of-most-successful-wildlife-laws/article_346d456a-9e2b-11e3-8094-0019bb2963f4.html

http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/the-endangered-species-act-isn-t-broken-congress-is/article_3db9aa84-9582-11e3-b90f-0019bb2963f4.html


http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/endangered-species-act-s-th-anniversary-draws-celebration-critics/article_8ceb9bf3-3ddf-5bde-8ba7-dfb6ab99cdb6.html

fisher99999

I would like to give a big thanks to these protestors as they are pro-wildlife patriots. We are the majority. We have pet owners, scientists, native Americans, and many others on our side. We need to protect our wolves from the psychopaths who are hell bent on killing them.

Lobo Bandito

1st- You obviously missed my comment below where I explain that the Native Americans actually have been killing wolves with more prejudice than the rest of the Nation! They have been killing wolves YEAR ROUND for years now. Something Idaho just accomplished this year. Yeah there are a few tribes here and in Wisconsin etc that cherish these wolves. Though there are many more tribes that more so cherish elk, moose and deer meat for there family to live off of. Therefore they are realistic enough to manage the competition. Hard for people who don't live in poverty to grasp isn't it.!?!.
2nd- Pretty much every wolf hunter here has pets.
3rd- Scientists are NOT on your side. Of course you may have found some whack biologists to agree to the agenda but the VAST majority of them are not on your side. This man above "Gadfly", well try actually reading and researching some of what he spews. If you have half a brain you will immediately see he twists all his facts. This "Trophic cascade effect" he talks about is a LIE. Don't believe me? Google the NY Times story "is the wolf a real American hero". There you will find, from the words of a pro wolf, wolf biologist that the story of wolves saving yellowstone is a lie. Also the whole argument of not needing to hunt wolves stems from the Balance of Nature/Apex Predator theory. Do yourself a favor, TAKE THE RED PILL. Free your mind!! Now read the book - Balance of Nature, Ecology's Enduring Mtyh - then google "Balance of Nature Theory" and find that it has been proven WRONG and is discredited by the majority of the scientific community. It is actually replaced by the catastrophe theory. Which is more accurate to what is happening to our balance of prey/predator in western Montana. Yeah Gadfly can cite elk stats across the state going up but he dare not talk about the truth!!! That many districts no longer have any elk tags left for our natives and locals to eat. That 20% of Montana lives at poverty. That the game meat was a MASSIVE part of their survival. Now they are forced to loose their organic elk meat which runs about $20 for a elk tag and $1 for a bullet. Take a 600 pound elk and you have meat for the family for the winter for $0.07 per pound. Now we have to go to walmart for beef that is $5.00 a pound and full of horomones, pesticides, vaccinations and god knows what. Costing them thousands of dollars they don't have.
Way to go pro-wolf crowd. As the NY times article I mentioned explains the sanctity ya'll have given the wolf and the lies about prowolf science, has ruined all credibility to your cause. If you want to be taken seriously, please don't listen to people like Gadfly, skippadoodoo, huard etc. They just don't have valid arguments.

fisher99999

The majority of REAL scientists are on our side, not some phoney anti-wolf scientist. The native Americans also do not share your anti-wolf extremist views.

Iceman9
Iceman9

Wild elk meat may not be full of horomones, pesticides, vaccines, and who knows what else. But it's still rife with fat and cholesterol. Not much better.
Natives killing with more prejudice? Blasphemy!

Lobo Bandito

ICEMAN- you obviously have no idea what you are saying and have never cooked an elk burger. They are so lean and healthy that you actually have to add egg or beef/pork fat just to get them to stick together enough to cook without falling apart. Also you say its blasphemy that natives kill wolves with more prejudice. Well maybe you should look at the published wolf management plan on the Blackfoot Rez or the CSKT Rez and realize again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe you should call them and ask how many months a year they kill wolves and how many wolves a year they kill. Ask them how much money the spend to have a professional predator hunter keep their numbers in check. I'll warn you , you won't be happy when you get the answers.

FISHER9999- Obviously your google is broken. As I said above just google the definition of -Balance of Nature-, then google the book I also mentioned above -and also read the article in NYTIMES written by Arthur Middleton that I already cited above. He is the one that calls out the Yellowstone wolf fairy tale for what it is. A LIE. By the way he is a PRO-wolf biologist. So your "anti-wolf scientist" comment is false! I am not an anti-wolf extremists, just a realist. I am willing to share the elk with the wolves but what they have done in my hunting district has eliminated all of the elk tags for humans. I will share my lunch with them but no way will I let them steal my whole dinner. Lastly you are also WRONG about the Native Americans, maybe you should educate yourself and read the reservations wolf management plan, which includes KILLING WOLVES. Nice try but fact is fact, you two obviously live in Never Never Land.

Iceman9
Iceman9

Native Americans respect the animals they kill. Trophy hunters don't. There's a difference.

AJ2001

Lobo that is such a compelling argument, playing on poverty and how you are such a bud to Native folk. I see you have such a good understanding of the Native issues about culture. Like how we just love to kill off wolves and wild horses!! We killed off all the buffalo too, heck ya, that was us! Way to tell a lie so big everyone forgets the original question. Oh,.. NO ONE

AJ2001

No one is talking about subsistence hunting here, we are talking about out of control trophy hunting that is based on pure hate, of wolves and Native people. I have never seen liars more skilled than a racist.

AJ2001

From Blackfeet leader James St Goddard

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/groups-protest-at-capitol-over-bison-and-wolf-hunts/article_108b31ba-6b0c-53d5-a34c-3516aec6178f.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVeUFxy36qw&feature=youtu.be

AJ2001

“We understand wolves to be our educators, teaching us about hunting and working together in extended family units. Wolves exemplify perseverance, guardianship, intelligence, and wisdom. Moreover, in the Anishinaabe creation story, we are taught that Ma’iingan is a brother to the Original Man. The two traveled together throughout the earth naming everything. Once this task was completed, the Creator said that the two had to take separate paths, but indicated that whatever happened to one would happen to the other. Each would be feared, respected, and misunderstood by the people who would later join them on earth. Thus the health and survival of Anishinaabe people is tied to that of Ma’iingan. We can do no less than to fully support efforts to protect and promote acceptance and to ensure healthy and abundant populations of wolves–it is our future we are also considering…”

“This unique relationship with Ma’iingan brings with it unique responsibility. For the Anishinaabe, the cultural significance of wolves and the responsibility of the tribes to manage the wolf resource in Wisconsin in a culturally appropriate way cannot be overstated…”

-James Zorn, Executive Administrator of GLFWC
http://welrp.org/maiingan-the-wolf-our-brother

AJ2001

"Wolves figure prominently in the mythology of nearly every Native American tribe. In most Native cultures, Wolf is considered a medicine being associated with courage, strength, loyalty, and success at hunting. Like bears, wolves are considered closely related to humans by many North American tribes, and the origin stories of some Northwest Coast tribes, such as the Quileute and the Kwakiutl, tell of their first ancestors being transformed from wolves into men. In Shoshone mythology, Wolf plays the role of the noble Creator god, while in Anishinabe mythology a wolf character is the brother and true best friend of the culture hero. Among the Pueblo tribes, wolves are considered one of the six directional guardians, associated with the east and the color white. The Zunis carve stone wolf fetishes for protection, ascribing to them both healing and hunting powers. "

http://www.native-languages.org/legends-wolf.htm

Jason Maxwell

"We are the majority" ....all twelve of you? For being the majority you sure aren't doing a very good job. Montana delists the wolf, you lose. Montana introduces a wolf hunting season, you lose. Montana introduces a wolf trapping season, you lose. Montana increases the bag limit from 1 to 3 to 5, you lose. Montana extends the hunting season, you lose. Montana introduces a law to allow land owners to shoot wolves they consider a threat year round, you lose. You temporarily shut down a hunt outside of YNP but is deemed unconstitutional, you lose. For being "the majority" you are really good at losing.

JacksUsername
JacksUsername

I have to disagree Jason. Now that the anti-wolf movement has been exposed for what it truly is: anti-Fed conspiracy theorists with a white supremacist/KKK bent. It wouldn't surprise me if we start seeing a lot of violent news coming from ID, MT and WY in the next year.
Seeing as how you've been on the radar as a hate group since the 90's and the recent flare up of anti-wolf sentiment I would say you have already lost your cause.
You can read about how you are viewed by the rest of the nation in the Southern Poverty Law Center's article here: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/03/25/long-running-conspiracist-fears-still-fuel-anti-wolf-sentiments-in-mountain-states/#disqus_thread

RPT

Perhaps ... But we have the Congress.. The President of the United States and the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on our side.... NEXT

Iceman9
Iceman9

Not after they are punished for their heinous acts of treason.

Lobo Bandito

Don't forget we have the majority of biologists on our side too!!

Iceman9
Iceman9

No you don't, Bandito. They, too, should be punished.

AJ2001

A lot of fact inventing going on, what hunters have is a lot of money, local officials are hunters, and lobbies in Washington. It's about the big money of bringing in tourists not helping the poor, or feeding anyone's family. It's backed up nationally by the cattle industry and the oil industry.

So for now, because of the economy and a lot of quid pro quo, recreational hunters have the President (who doesn't know anything about the country so he hired a rancher then a trophy hunter as director of the USFWS), the USFWS, the Congress that has been taken over by the Tea Party since this president was elected, and right wing stated officials. They have scientists who will take the party line, but a lot of them have come out in articles and said they sold their integrity because they were afraid of losing their jobs.

Independent experts in wildlife biology support the wolves. That's pretty much all the wolves have is the truth on their side, until someone changes some legislation and some legislators.

What unbiased studies show: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091001164102.htm?fb_action_ids=10202864058778267&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like

Iceman9
Iceman9

Blackmailed into keeping their jobs? I thought I smelled something fishy here.

Gadfly

Wolves are being politically managed in the wolf massacre states of MT-WY-ID-WI and somewhat in other states by a good old boy network of hunters-ranchers-state wildlife agencies of the same ilk-and conservative state legislatures. The wolf was delisted in Montana and Idaho my political shenanigans of Jon Tester (Senator from Montana) and Simpkins (representative from ID) attaching a rider (sneaky way to get something through congress) to a Defense Appropriation bill in April 2011. Congress was not paying attention and it was not by ESA. It should have been left up to USFWS, Department of Interior and ESA. State management of wolves in the states mentioned is regressive, back to the 1800’s (hunting, trapping, extended and year around seasons, notions of marginalizing or eradication, elk and other ungulate farming). Oregon is the model for wolf management having nonlethal means as a priority, requiring nonlethal means to be in place and managing only chronic offenders (read killing). WA also has more of a friendly policy of managing offenders, not driving down the population. And contrary to the writer of the article, the OR and WA populations are not token numbers, they represent the forerunners of an expending population, which will soon be in northern CA. Ranchers and hunters and their ilk can learn to live with wolves instead of against them and it would be healthier for the wilderness ecology, including the ungulates. It would also be better for tourism and the image potential tourists have of the state.

Lobo Bandito

Enjoy your fairy tale story in Oregon, thats how Montana used to be and now we hang hundreds of wolves on our walls every year :)

Iceman9
Iceman9

The walls are where wolf haters belong. Behind glass, mummified, on display, a showcase of human ignorance and stupidity.

Gadfly

We need the Endangered Species Act and Environmental Protection Act to protect us from ourselves in preserving what is left, about 5% of true wilderness with half of that in Alaska. Continuing encroachment is what we have on wildlife with leasing permits on national forests and BLM lands, 772 permits on national forests in Montana and 3776 on BLM land with 23,000 such permits in 16 western states, people living in (cabins in national forests) and close to wilderness and demanding safety for themselves and their families and critters, easy access to wilderness, on-going seasonal mass killing of wildlife (hunting and trapping as recreational opportunities), fracking and gas lines, deforestation, killing of wildlife because it is considered a threat or too familiar with all the humans encroaching on them, USDA Wildlife Services killing for ranchers and farmers, anti-wolf hysteria by sportsmen and ranchers and the wildlife agencies (wolf jihad). It is called "civilization"; the march of civilization started with settlements into farming and ranching and the ensuing war on flora and fauna continuing to this day. Conservationists, not enough the wildlife agencies, are trying to hold the line, set some aside, a line in the sand, which is obviously being pushed back by settlement around wilderness areas, hunting and trapping traditions, extraction industries, ranchers and sportsmen, and wildlife agencies who make many political decisions regarding wildlife. We are likely to see state and national political tactics to repeal and undermine ESA and EPA and install local control of national interests.


References:
http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/mailbag/endangered-species-act-one-of-most-successful-wildlife-laws/article_346d456a-9e2b-11e3-8094-0019bb2963f4.html

http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/the-endangered-species-act-isn-t-broken-congress-is/article_3db9aa84-9582-11e3-b90f-0019bb2963f4.html


http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/endangered-species-act-s-th-anniversary-draws-celebration-critics/article_8ceb9bf3-3ddf-5bde-8ba7-dfb6ab99cdb6.html

Lobo Bandito

Why would we need the Endangered land/money grabbing Species Act? Alls they did was keep a wolf species on the "endangered" list. One that has been listed the whole time on the list of LEAST CONCERN by the global community(IUCN red list). I wish you people would try to save an animal for once that is actually endangered like the hawaiian monk seal or something other than what resembles your 4 legged friend that you bought for yourself. In case you have never read the list of least concern I'll tell you that alligators are on there, along with MANKIND!!

Iceman9
Iceman9

Globally, populations are in good order. Regionally, it's another story. But you take notice? Clearly not.

Lobo Bandito

Iceman clearly you don't understand that there are 100,000 grey wolves in North America alone. There isn't enough elk, moose and deer in the country to feed that many wolves and humans at the same time. Regionally they have wiped the elk and moose in my area. Humans can no longer buy an elk tag to hunt here. Now the wolves are doing the same in surrounding regions. When I ask the local Biologist how the wolves are doing here she says "amazing", "overpopulated". When I ask her how the elk are doing she says "Horrible", "critically threatened" "its really sad" "no more tags this year either". When I ask about the moose she says "they are all but gone". Clearly you just don't understand. Don't understand the majority of us are meat hunters not trophy hunters and you don't understand mathematics of predator/prey.

Iceman9
Iceman9

Bandito, that is a gross exaggeration. Elk and moose are gone in your area? Go hunt somewhere else. You do have that option, you know? And I don't buy that meat hunter BS. Most of you use that as a disguise for trophy hunting.

Gadfly

Asinine Wolf Killing Called Management
Wolves never should have been de-listed from protection by political maneuverings and now politically managed in western states that are hostile toward them and by agencies that have traditionally been hostile to them in particular as well as other predators. Western and mid-western states are going very far against hunting ethics or anything that resembles fair chase to cull wolf populations down to marginal numbers. Now, in Montana and other states we are even having a trapping season, extended seasons, and even legislators proposing more drastic measures in the coming year. Basically, this majestic, apex animal is being treated as a varmint by sportsmen, ranchers, state and federal wildlife agencies. Hostile western states cannot responsibly manage the wolves or even other predators. Wolves are a very healthy factor in wilderness ecological systems. Man is not. We need man-management more with regard to man’s long traditions of blood sports and war on wildlife.
Managing wolves by hunting and trapping is asinine, cruel, barbaric and unnecessary, and poor management strategy, and terrible public relations. It does not work well. It is bad public relations for Montana and other western states. It is vendetta, anti-wolf hysteria, pushed by self-serving hunters, trappers, ranchers, and wolf hating yokels, with a mindset of anti-wolf folklore over the centuries, supported by rancher politicians and rancher government officials and agencies. If Montana and other states have to hunt, why not stick with a fair chase season and then call it good no matter what the outcome. Spare us the perverse arguments of need for management by trapping, extended hunt seasons, bounties, more than one kill ticket, use of calling devices, need to hit a quota, or use of other barbaric measures of unneeded control. Hunting and trapping are barbaric “blood sports” and a war on wildlife, not a legitimate management tools. We do not do near enough about non-lethal means of control or management.
Actually, hunting wolves is asinine. A hunt and trap season is indiscriminate in killing. Wolves causing no problems are killed. Alpha males and females are killed. Wolves are a very social family with special roles assigned. Families are disrupted. Juveniles are left to learn on their own. Pups are left to die or learn on their own when a female parent is killed. Wolves and packs that are leaving humans alone are killed. Animals are wounded and not killed. Many hunters and trappers take a sadistic pleasure in how they kill. Hunting and trapping tends to drive down the average age of wolf populations. Some younger wolves are not given the opportunity to learn from adults to stay away from human domains and how to hunt their natural prey. Wolf packs are fragmented and de-stabilized. Wolves do not need to be managed by hunting or trapping at all. They will fill up wilderness niches and limit their own populations relative to prey and territory and available niches. Wolves belong in the wilderness wildlife ecology and are healthy for it. Man is not a healthy factor in wilderness ecology and needs to be managed with regard to it, not the animals inside.
Trapping is cruel even if done legally, even if it is a tradition, even if seen as a management tool. Traps are cruel. It should be banned for the public, allowed as necessary for wildlife officials who use it vastly too much with a pervasive kill attitude of their own. Why should animals suffer for private economic gain on fur sales or to artificially farm (boost) elk herds (elk farming)? In the USA over 4 million animals are trapped each year for “sport” and millions more for “management” and millions more as collateral damage. Hunters worldwide kill over 100 million animals. USDA Wildlife Services sees killing animals, for control or management, as their mission. USDA Wildlife services kills over 3 million animals a year.

The western states are locked into a mindset of quotas and marginalizing wolf populations by hunting and trapping and other lethal methods. Quotas for delisting were based on outdated figures for sustainable wolf populations. Wolves have not harmed game populations or significantly harmed stock populations (statistically zero, .0029%), contrary to repeated and repeated anecdotal opinion. Elk populations are up, from around 89,000 in 1989 to over 140,000 plus now. Hunters have great seasons on killing ungulates in Montana, 25,000 elk in 2010 and 90,000 deer (per FWP). Elk harvest is generally up, 100 to 127% per MT FWP. Wolves regulate their own populations as they have in Yellowstone where their numbers and bear numbers go down naturally. Problem wolves and problem packs should be “managed” but usually not always by lethal means and not by hunters and trappers. Wildlife agencies seem only to have a kill mentality wanting to control predators by hunting and trapping and other lethal means. Montana and the other wolf massacre states are giving themselves a black eye with the rest of the nation with an anti-wolf anti-tourism, anti-science, anti-wolf hysteria.
http://thoughtsfromthewildside.blogspot.com/2014/03/killing-wolves-hunter-led-war-against.html?m=1

http://missoulian.com/news/local/house-members-tell-jewell-to-drop-plan-to-delist-gray/article_12970184-afb9-11e3-9484-001a4bcf887a.html


http://missoulian.com/news/local/montana-hunters-trappers-kill-wolves/article_49fde25a-ae0b-11e3-8c27-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.facebook.com/notes/anti-hunting-in-america/loss-of-predators-in-northern-hemisphere-affecting-ecosystem-health/409594352443485
http://exposingthebiggame.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/1445/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By1rDn_DrmA&feature=share

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=414029708666616&set=a.203902623012660.46564.191368640932725&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf

http://www.facebook.com/Anti.HuntingUSA?ref=stream

http://animalconnectionblog.blogspot.com/2013/03/new-mexico-bill-restricting-poisons.html#.UTp4qXo0UVA.facebook

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=437229476355887&set=a.381633781915457.90631.213731762038994&type=1&ref=nf

http://www.endangeredspecieshandbook.org/chapters.php

http://www.maniacworld.com/very-brave-rescue.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By1rDn_DrmA&feature=share

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=414029708666616&set=a.203902623012660.46564.191368640932725&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf

http://www.facebook.com/Anti.HuntingUSA?ref=stream

http://animalconnectionblog.blogspot.com/2013/03/new-mexico-bill-restricting-poisons.html#.UTp4qXo0UVA.facebook

http://www.endangeredspecieshandbook.org/chapters.php

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=598160690198093&set=a.182250278455805.49195.181912475156252&type=1&ref=nf

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=477901352254089&set=a.291521197558773.76524.291510007559892&type=1&ref=nf

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=464786616909768&set=a.153353578053075.44044.148235025231597&type=1&ref=nf


Iceman9
Iceman9

Asinine is putting it mildly. It's as pointless and illogical as airport security.

BruceH59

The poor wolf cultist crying and crying but the public has learned the truth. Wolves are worthless vermin pest equal to rats. Only a Satan lover worshipping wolves an animal that kills dogs in front of children would want wolves protected. Or a Michael Vick wannabe that get's off on seeing all the blood from the dogs after the wolves have killed or wounded the poor dog.

Iceman9
Iceman9

Do you really think wolves would find it insulting being compared to rats? No, they wouldn't. Oh, sure, rats may be disgusting and do a lot of gross things. But they're very intelligent and have strong survival instincts. Wolves also have strong survival instincts. Elk hoes like BruceH59, on the other hand, do not.
And yet, there's a lot of gross things that rats and wolves WON'T do that humans do actually do. Like necrophilia. Rats and wolves never f*** their dead.

Lobo Bandito

Wolf depredation at 0.0029%... Wow the spin doctor is back again!!! Listen, that is a number across the nation! News flash, wolves only occupy about 10 states. So why are you counting the cattle in the other 40 states in your figure?? Oh yeah I forgot, AGENDA!!! Also don't fail to mention that according to the PRO-wolf biologists only 1/6 of wolf depredations are accounted for. In reality it is even much less than that.

Then you site the elk population growth state wide. Thats like saying crime in Illinois has gone down drastically but changing the subject when someone asks about the local crime rate in Chicago. Yeah ok, elk pops have grown state wide. But try this on for size. Before wolves moved in, district 203 had 150-200 cow elk tags. After wolves moved in we have ZERO TAGS!!! That is 50,000 pounds of native organic elk meat that no longer feeds our families. That much meat used to feed about 200 families for an entire year! Now those 200 elk that used to feed 200 families only feed 10 wolves. Thats a pretty pathetic model and it really shows how wasteful wolves are. I'm not saying kill them all, but dang would I love to have some elk in my freezer again. Its not an issue of I'm "too lazy to get out of the truck and actually hunt". Its an issue of THERE ARE NO MORE ELK TAGS AT ALL!!!

fisher99999

That 50,000 pounds or organic meat now feeds the wild animals. I prefer wild animals eating that meat over some redneck.

Lobo Bandito

To bad you will never grasp that a wolf is just an apex predator, humans are THE apex predator. Also too bad you don't grasp that many kids in poverty right now have no elk meat because of uneducated people like yourself.

fisher99999

Wolves are the apex predator. I prefer the elk meat going to the wild animals.

Iceman9
Iceman9

Humans, apex predator? HA! Get out of the Pleistocene era, satchmo. Humans have long evolved beyond having to kill.

Gadfly

How much proof does USFWS need to prove that wolves should not be delisted? What we have is political management of a species, particularly in MT-WY-ID-WI. Wyoming has them classified as varmints in most of the state. Montana's new rules allow ranchers to shoot any wolf they see as "threatening", which means any wolf they see, and proposes to have year around trapping. Idaho is having wolf and coyote contests for cash and has hired a hunter to kill a couple of packs deep in a wilderness area arguing that it is in defense of elk herds. The Governor of and legislature of ID sets aside $400,000 to drive down the wolf population to marginal, delisting levels. Wisconsin is using dogs. MT-WY-ID-WI are obviously marginalizing this apex predator which is not good ecology for trophic cascade of effects; with hunters (sports killing) and ranchers and these state wildlife agencies having unhealthy effects on ecology. We are rapidly getting back to the 1800's in wolf massacring states. Wolf management--they do not generally need management, should be out of the states' hands. The states mentioned are way too hostile, and controlled by historic hostile elements. They are promoting two myths despite contrary evidence: Wolves do not kill too many elk and their impact on cattle is less than 0.002%. These states are run by rancher and hunter folklore, myths and lies and their ilk in the state wildlife agencies and legislatures, with so far the only exception being OR and somewhat WA. OR is the model wolf management state, allowing the killing of only chronic offenders, not general wolf killing, and requiring that nonlethal management be in place and tried. The throwback (1800’s) wolf massacre states are mismanaging wolves. If the states, particularly the ones mentioned, were forced to live with wolves for a number years and focus on nonlethal management, per the Oregon model, they might get use to the idea and wolves would have a chance, but not at the present time.

References:
http://thoughtsfromthewildside.blogspot.com/2014/03/killing-wolves-hunter-led-war-against.html?m=1

http://missoulian.com/news/local/house-members-tell-jewell-to-drop-plan-to-delist-gray/article_12970184-afb9-11e3-9484-001a4bcf887a.html

http://go.takepart.com/ct/17484010:18777977085:m:1:486146059:338CF0EAB26947FBBBA126412C80AD2E:r:www.takepart.com/article/2014/01/31/getting-ranchers-tolerate-wolves--its-too-late:2014-02-03

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/montana-hunters-trappers-take-wolves/article_7cdcd81f-48ca-5cfe-8de1-3af0636e2064.html

http://thoughtsfromthewildside.blogspot.com/2014/03/killing-wolves-hunter-led-war-against.html?m=1

http://exposingthebiggame.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/idaho-kills-23-wolves-from-helicopter-this-month-in-lolo-zone/

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/Wolves/management_plan.asp

http://missoulian.com/news/local/environmentalists-ask-idaho-judge-to-halt-wolf-derby/article_85ec58d2-6c34-11e3-be5c-001a4bcf887a.html

http://missoulian.com/news/local/idaho-group-sponsors-youth-wolf-coyote-derby/article_de89fb6e-6781-11e3-9a45-0019bb2963f4.html

http://exposingthebiggame.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/oregon-panel-oks-last-resort-wolf-killing-rule/

MT Stock Loss Board

MT FWP

Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation

The Wolf Almanac by Robert Busch

The Hidden Life of Wolves by Jamie and Jim Dutcher

Exposing the Big Game by Jim Robertson

Romeo, The Story of an Alaskan Wolf by John Hyde

RPT

There is no shortage of wolves out there.. Never has been never will be.. And there was NEVER a reason that they should have ever been listed as endangered and placed on that list.
The International Union for the Conservation of Nature is the big daddy of all conservation organizations. The IUCN consists of over 1200 national and international environmental organizations dedicated to conserving biological diversity and preserving wildlands. The IUCN officially lists Grey Wolves as a species of “LEAST CONCERN”. The IUCN’s own Wolf Specialist group says that “the species does not meet, or nearly meet, any of the criteria for the threatened categories.”

But even by using the most conservative measures it is estimated that today there are between 250,000 and one million wolves roaming the northern hemisphere. Wolves in the United States are receiving special protections not because they are endangered, but because they are the “keystone” species driving the REWILDING agenda.

HUNTING is CONSERVATION.
Without modern day management and hunting there would be NO wildlife.

Iceman9
Iceman9

10) Hunting is”sustainable.”
In today’s world of 7 billion people? Never mind, that’s a joke if I’ve ever heard one.
Do we really want to encourage 7 billion humans to go out and kill wildlife for food as if wild animal flesh is an unlimited resource? The only way hunting could be sustainable for humans these days is if we drastically reduced our population…and killed off all the natural predators. Overhunting has proven time and again to be the direct cause of extinctions, from the passenger pigeon to the Eastern and the Miriams Elk. Now wolves in the Rockies and Great Lakes are being hunted and trapped to oblivion—for the second time.

9) Animals kill other animals, so we can too.
That’s an example of what’s known as the naturalistic fallacy—the notion that any behavior that can be found in nature is morally justifiable. But wolves and other natural predators need to hunt to survive, humans don’t—for them it’s nothing more than a thrill kill. Human beings have moved beyond countless other behaviors such as cannibalism or infanticide, so why can’t some people tear themselves away from hunting?

8) Humans have teeth like carnivores Human beings have mostly flat teeth, designed primarily for chewing plant-based foods, as our primate cousins do. Our canines, or “fangs,” are teensy compared to those of gorillas, who are strict vegetarians and only show them to appear fierce. Also, our intestinal tract is long to allow for the slow digestion of high-fiber foods, while true carnivores have short intestines as needed to process meat and dispose of the resulting toxic wastes quickly.

7) Wild game meat is health food.
All animal flesh is rife with cholesterol throughout, and the protein in animal flesh is acidic, causing bone calcium losses as it is metabolized. According to the American Dietetic Association, a diet high in animal products has been linked to obesity, diabetes, colon and other cancers, osteoporosis, kidney stones, gallstones, diverticular disease, hypertension and coronary artery disease. New studies have found that another culprit in causing heart disease may be a little-studied chemical that is burped out by bacteria in the intestines after people eat meat.

6) Hunting is needed to control animal populations.
You’d really have to have no understanding of or faith in Mother Nature to make such a claim—she was doing a fine job of taking care of her own before Man came along and appointed himself “manager” and “game” keeper. No niche goes unfilled for long before some natural predator finds it and fixes a “problem”…if we allow them to. Besides, hunting animals like deer makes them breed more, resulting in more deer, not fewer.

5) If we don’t kill deer they’ll become a traffic hazard.
Four words: Slow the f*** Down.
More animals are hit by cars during hunting season than any other time of year, usually when fleeing from bloodthirsty sportsmen with guns.

4) Hunting teaches respect for wildlife and an appreciation for nature.
Ha! That’s like a serial killer claiming his crimes foster a respect for women. Tracking down and shooting something does not equal respect. Try using a camera or binoculars if you really want to respect them.

3) Hunting is a “manly” sport.
First of all, hunting isn’t even a sport—Sport is generally recognized as an activity based in physical athleticism or physical dexterity. Sports are usually governed by rules to ensure fair competition. A sport is played by two equally matched, or at least equally willing, sides. According to SportAccord, the second criteria determining if something is a sport: it be in no way harmful to any living creature. And anyway, real men respect animals (see above).

2) Hunting licenses pay for wildlife refuges.
In truth, hunting licenses pay for hunter playgrounds, not true wildlife refuges. Take a look at how many “refuges” have been opened up to hunting; or just try to close an area to hunting for the sake of wildlife and hear the nimrods wail. If hunters hadn’t hijacked all the refuges, more bird watchers, hikers and others who truly appreciate nature would gladly pay for a pass to frequent those places. Furthermore, non-consumptive wildlife watchers contribute far more to local economies than do hunters.

1) Hunting keeps kids out of trouble.
Sticking a gun in a child’s hand and telling him or her to shoot Bambi is likely to leave lasting psychological scars, whether it’s PTSD or a heart calloused for killing.

Bonus fallacy) God put Animals here for us to use.
Don’t flatter yourself.

There, I just poked a huge hole in your "logic".

BruceH59

All you did was post lies and propaganda. But that is normal for a wolf cultist. Why don't you find a new cult to join.

Iceman9
Iceman9

What I did was post excellent, credible retorts to hunter fallacies. You calling us cultists shows your ignorance. And by the way, Hemorrhage, you don't even live in a state that has wolves. Who are you to stick your big nose into an issue that has no effect on your state? Think about that.

Lobo Bandito

You are so correct for once. Well in regards to wolves hunting. Look at Isle Royal. They wiped the moose out for over hunting. Only reason they rebounded was because the wolves have almost killed themselves off with inbreeding.

Man I love Montana. No matter how loud the wolf lovers spew false stats and figures and theories the State still lets us kill elk and "murder" wolves :) Then after I'm done eating them I can wear them around town.

BTW here is a bombshell for you. Tofu and rice create more greenhouse gasses than beef.

Iceman9
Iceman9

And yet, you can't undercook tofu and rice. So you can't get food poisoning as easily from them. Unlike beef, which is a waste of water just to make.

AJ2001

Iceman that was brilliant. Awesome.

AJ2001

RPT everything that you said is the complete opposite of all the facts out there. Is it opposite day?

"By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise." - A Hitler

"I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature. Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice." - A Hitler

Studies and articles on trophy hunting and the effects on the survival of wildlife:

http://www.ifaw.org/sites/default/files/Ecolarge-2013-200m-question.pdf

http://blog.sunsafaris.com/2013/06/21/this-is-why-trophy-hunting-will-not-save-our-lions/

http://blog.africageographic.com/africa-geographic-blog/editorials/founders-editorial-october-2013/

http://blog.africageographic.com/africa-geographic-blog/news/evidence-against-trophy-hunting-mounts/

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/mailbag/elizabeth-huntley-wildlife-watchers-do-more-for-economy-than-hunters/article_b2d91216-ae1c-5e20-a43d-ac5d2f591210.html

http://technorati.com/lifestyle/green/article/trophy-hunters-the-lies-that-hide/

Sheepdawg

I too wonder why this fine news organization choses a particular story.

Lobo Bandito

I like how they try the Native American/Wolf guilt trip :) Yeah uh news flash, hundreds of tribes of natives kill wolves. Just Google "eskimo wolf trap whale bone" and learn how long ago they would feed wolves rolled bone spears that would unroll once swallowed. Or maybe now a days just go to the Salish, Kootenai or Blackfoot reservations where they have been hunting wolves year round for half a decade. Guess "Great White Hunters" aren't the only men that like the taste of elk and moose meat. It doesn't take a mathematician to calculate that if you want food for the winter, management better be realistic and kill some wolves. It doesn't take a chef to tell you that elk tastes better than wolf. It shouldn't take a biologist to tell you that killing that 100 lb wolf saved 13,000 pounds of elk, in just one year.. A wolf kills 21.6 Elk per year.Thats about 6,500 pounds of elk meat. I love animals but I would rather see 21.6 Local families, 20% of which live in poverty, be fed for the year as opposed to just one non local wolf.

Iceman9
Iceman9

The Natives kill to survive. Trophy hunters kill just because they can.

DVanVorous

Give a call to the Confederated tribe res and their dept of Fish and game and ask what their attitude is about the wolves on the res before making statements like that because it isn't exactly correct-true...and the attitude they have applies to all the large predators on the res.

Iceman9
Iceman9

Natives respect the animals they kill. Trophy hunters, predator hunters included, don't.

AJ2001

Lobo you don't know anything about Native people, you are offensive, and you are cherry picking facts to twist the truth. You have no business spreading lies about Native people and spreading more of your bs for have thrill kills

"It shouldn't take a biologist to tell you that killing that 100 lb wolf saved 13,000 pounds of elk, in just one year.." No, it's about time that someone starting learning about wildlife from actual wolf biologists, who are pro-wolf, instead of trophy hunters.

The killing of wolves isn't anything but disturbing the ecosystem and cruelty to animals. Science is more complicated than what you are saying, the whole ecosystem is made of a lot of species that depend on the apex predator balancing everything. When you remove that, other species suffer, they get more diseases, they overgraze, insects and plants suffer. 5th grad math doesn't trump a PhD that then got experience. STOP LYING.

"Idaho, Wyoming and Montana show that since 1995, populations have grown in two states: Wyoming (16%), Montana (45% !). Idaho’s elk declined by 9%."
http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2014/03/26/wyoming-has-a-near-record-elk-hunt/

Loss Of Top Predators Causing Surge In Smaller Predators, Ecosystem Collapse
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091001164102.htm?fb_action_ids=10202864058778267&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like

Idaho hunters demand killing of wolves for more access to elk killing, while Idaho ranchers complain too many elk, demand to have them killed ~

Ranchers Demand Solution to Elk Herd Problem
http://magicvalley.com/news/local/ranchers-demand-solution-to-elk-herd-problem/article_ec4f52a8-8491-11e3-9b8c-0019bb2963f4.html

Ranchers demand solution to elk herd problem
http://www.idahostatejournal.com/outdoors/ranchers-demand-solution-to-elk-herd-problem/article_638b84e6-851d-11e3-b8b0-001a4bcf887a.html

When will it be time to listen to the actual wildlife biologist instead of politicians?

Lobo Bandito

AJ2001 you are beyond wrong!. You are trying to tell me I am "LYING" when I got my information from forwolf.org. Acording to YOUR science on that prowolf site a wolf kills 21.6 elk per year. This was from the Yellowstone study and prowolf biologists. I personally have an annual meeting with my district biologist. She is prowolf and proelk. As I am a land owner and therfore a land steward I make it my duty to get facts from the source and not from websites w a donate now button. She has said every year for the last 5 years or so that the wolves are doing above objective and the elk are locally critically threatend. So you calling me a liar is a total joke. I pay more attention to detail than most anybody. That leads me to wolf hunting in hopes of one day being able to put elk back on my table. And would you believe it but oftentimes I hunt wolves with local Native Americans so you are also wrong again.
Google wolf hunting and this is what you will see
North America
In the majority of Native American hunter-gatherer societies, wolves were usually killed for body parts used in rituals, or to stop them raiding food caches,[33] though some tribes would raid wolf dens for pups when wolf populations became too large for the Natives to live with. This also served as a method of acquiring food, as wolf cubs were considered a delicacy. Native Americans were aware of the dangers of habituated wolves, and would quickly dispatch wolves following them too closely.[34] Active hunting of wolves was rare because many tribes believed that such an act would cause game animals to disappear or bring retribution from other wolves.[33] The Cherokee feared that the unjust killing of a wolf would bring about the vengeance of its pack mates, and that the weapon used for the deed would be useless in future unless exorcised by a medicine man. However, they would kill wolves with impunity if they knew the proper rites of atonement, and if the wolves themselves happened to raid their fish nets.[35] When the Kwakiutl killed a wolf, the animal would be laid out on a blanket and have portions of its flesh eaten by the perpetrators, who would express regret at the act before burying it. The Ahtna would take the dead wolf to a hut, where it would be propped in a sitting position with a banquet made by a shaman set before it. When men from certain Eskimo tribes killed a wolf, they would walk around their houses four times, expressing regret and abstaining from sexual relations with their wives for four days.[33] Young Apaches would kill wolves, cougars or bears as a rite of passage.[36] Although some of the first European colonists traveling to North America would report back that wolves were more populous in the New World than in Europe,[33] writings from the Lewis and Clark Expedition indicate that wolves were seldom seen except in aboriginal buffer zones.[37]

00dk

Huh, the last citation from Idaho State Journal looked fishy (as does all the copy & pasted BS) and I was thinking AJ was passing off old pre-wolf lit, but i opened it and the article was indeed from 2014 (and a whopping scientifically- void 5 (FIVE) sentences), the last one ending like this....

'Several proposed solutions included moving herd feeding grounds or even relocating the animals to backcountry where elk numbers have been decimated by wolves.'

Decimated by wolves? Uh, this supports your point how? Yep, (ILL)logic at it's finest, supported by a factless blurb that actually supports the opposite of your argument. It appears your ability to see anything besides what you want is non-existent and your willingness to deceive is pathetic - I feel sad for you...I hope you don't have kids :(

Greg Strandberg
Greg Strandberg

Montana has 6 times the required wolf population. What's the problem? I don't understand why these people aren't happy?

I remember in 2000 getting tons of calls from people all over the world at the USFWS offices in Helena. They couldn't stand that there weren't enough wolves. Now we have enough and they're not happy.

This common perception now that environmentalists can never be happy is doing more to hurt their cause than anything. They're exhibiting a level of irrationality that makes it not only so companies don't like them, they don't feel as though they can work with them.

For the environmentalists this makes them feel like they're now in a corner with no friends. And that makes them lash out more. I expect a ton of negative comments to what I just said, most with few facts but much vitriol.

But we did everything you wanted. Would wolf populations 12 times the federal minimum limit satisfy you, how about 24? Can you give us a number so we don't have to offend you when we do what the law says, and then some?

I see no difference between these environmentalists and the companies and organizations they hate - both will give nothing while demanding everything in return.

Objective observer

They gave us a number: 300 wolves and 10 reproducing pairs. We passed that a long time ago.

Iceman9
Iceman9

Those numbers are based on outdated data. In 2002, scientists realized that those numbers would not be sustainable.

BruceH59

Wrong wolves are worthless vermin pest equal to rats. Only wolf cultist that worship them like Gods wants wolves protected. You just get off on wolves killing dogs right? You some kind of Michael Vick wannabe that loves the thought of your wolves shredding beloved family pets to pieces in front of children. Protect the wolves so the Satan wolf cult can cheer on their blood sport.

fisher99999

You must be talking about people like you.

Iceman9
Iceman9

BruceH59 and fisher999, people like you are the real vermin. But unlike the animals you call vermin, which are very intelligent and have strong survival instincts, you have neither of those.

JacksUsername
JacksUsername

Greg, I can see your reasoning and logic. I guess the point you've missed is the way that Idaho has gone about handling the 'wolf issue' by leaving out the public until after the state performs a 'control' or by the outfitter up in the Salmon, ID conducting a killing contest a few months back and then creating a Facebook page to shove it in the faces of those who are against killing wolves or any apex predators.
Granted, there are extremists on both sides of the issue. But even though I consider myself a hardcore and dedicated conservationist, I have absolutely no problem with elk or deer hunting. What I am against is tipping the odds in favor of hunters who want easy prey and more of it. Where's the sport in that? I remember back in the 70's watching my uncles leave the back porch on foot, heading off into the mountains for days with nothing more than a backpack and their rifles. They would kill, quarter and haul the meat back themselves and afterwards they had stories for days of their adventures. Today's hunters and trappers have to be the biggest bunch of crybaby whiners I have ever heard. If there's not a herd of elk right off the road, the cry foul and blame the government, wolves or whomever for actually having to make an effort.
Nature is nature. Let it do it's thing. It's no secret that given time and non-interference by humans that wolves in the mix will only provide more elk, white-tailed deer, pronghorn, etc... to hunt. Not less.

Greg Strandberg
Greg Strandberg

I'm a native-Montanan that has never gone hunting. Hey, I was raised by two accountants in Helena! You probably know a lot more about it than me, and I do agree some of that ID stuff in the news seems kind of below-the-belt.

JacksUsername
JacksUsername

LOL... regardless, I'm guessing there will be a lot more exciting news on the wolf front in the coming months.

Lobo Bandito

Sad thing is in district 203 I can go walk out the back porch on foot to go hunting like your uncles did but it still won't change the fact that the state now offers ZERO cow elk tags due to the wolves decimating the herds. Its not an issue of being lazy its an issue of MISMANAGEMENT.

AJ2001

This sounds like hunter info, not science. "Montana has 6 times the required wolf population. What's the problem? I don't understand why these people aren't happy?"

The "required population" is the number that if you go below that their DNA viability is so poor they can't survive. The goal isn't to keep shooting them in front of their families, which they feel, to keep them at exactly that number. That's the number a trophy hunter looks at to keep them from being placed back on the Endangered Species List. It misses the whole picture. Please read information and studies from the wolf biologists and not the hunting magazines. Please look at the Facebook pages of wolf hunters. That is not how to treat animals or nature.

Wolves benefit the ecosystem and are a critical part of it. The "required number" is talking about the last ditch number to prevent absolute extinction it isn't a "healthy" number. It is not helping mankind to destroy the environment for short-term trophy hunting money. Most hunters are NOT feeding their families, this is a lot of tourist money for "fun". Fun of killing animals. There are real sports that are not cruel. There are real tourist attractions that are not cruel.

MTDoc

Why is this news? A few patchouli oil soaked urban dwellers drag kids and a dog ( which any wolf pack would immediately attack) to a public space to hold up a few signs. Outside of Berkeley, this wouldn't even make the last page of section Z.

logger

I do have to say...."a dozen" is news? Kinda depressing if I was a wolf advocate.

JacksUsername
JacksUsername

As compared to the single anti-wolf guy shouting from a bridge? Right....

Wolftracker

Pro-management folks generally go about their business without making signs and organizing tiny, pathetic protests against a legal activity. We also feel no need to shout from bridges. Thank you.

JacksUsername
JacksUsername

Fairly certain that the 'legal' activity of the British against the colonies started with a 'pathetic protest' by those colonists against a legal activity.
Who was right in that instance? And I'll help you out just in case you're unfamiliar with American history (the Boston Tea Party).

Iceman9
Iceman9

An activity that was made legal through illegal means. One of the natives speaking at the event in Helena said so himself.

elkguy

Those people couldn't possibly get any further removed from nature. They are clueless and nobody takes them seriously. Why the Missoulian even prints this garbage is beyond me. All it does is add fuel to the fire.

Joby79

Protest is everyone's Constitutional right, elkguy. If you don't like it, don't read about it.

Iceman9
Iceman9

Clearly, elkguy doesn't give a rat's a** about freedom of assembly. Unless it were a sportsman's rally, then he'd be all for that. That's a classic double standard.

JacksUsername
JacksUsername

Actually, I take them seriously and live out of state. If you live outside the bubble you'll find that a number of these articles published in the Missoulian are being heavily promoted outside of MT - which is where I come across them quite frequently. The pro-hunting/trapping crowd in these small towns might think they're talking the big talk, but they're just adding fuel to the stereotypes that they are backwards and not deserving of any animal they take - which I strongly support.
And 12 may not be a big number in Berkeley, but I would image that is an enormous turnout for any city, town, hovel in MT, ID or WY. Let alone the one anti-wolf guy shouting from a bridge *roll eyes*. If you translate those numbers nationally, the pro-wolf crowd vastly outnumbers the anti-wolf.

Objective observer

No, 12 is not a significant number in Missoula. If you lived here, you would know that. Don't pretend to project your feelings on the locals. You don't live here.

JacksUsername
JacksUsername

The internet is not 'local' and neither is this article as it effects everyone in this country.
Using the tired 'stay out of our business' reply just shows an inability to create a rationale response. Knee jerk would be another term.

Objective observer

You were the non-local trying to tell us locals that 12 is a significant number of protesters here which it is not. Don't try to pretend you have local knowledge when you obviously don't.

Sam Lobo
Sam Lobo

I feel sorry for the three kids & dog........ So these are the people that let the butcher do their dirty work. Disgusting people pimp wolves....... One must wonder which "donate now" button they benefit from.

Iceman9
Iceman9

I, on the other hand, can't possibly feel sorry for ignorants like you. Disgusting lowlifes who idolize ungulates like their gods are the worst kind of human beings not in prison. Those ungulates have the same type of feet that Satan has. Which, in theory, makes those who value them more than other wildlife, Satan-worshippers.

BruceH59

I, on the other hand, can't possibly feel sorry for ignorants like you. Disgusting lowlifes who idolize wolves like their gods are the worst kind of human beings not in prison. Those wolves have the same type of killing wounding and causing pain and suffering that Satan would love. Which, in theory, makes those who value them more than other wildlife, Satan-worshippers.

JacksUsername
JacksUsername

BruceH59, fairly certain it is the anti-wolf crowd up ID and MT in particular the cast of the 'Kill The Wolves in Idaho' and 'Idaho for Wildlife' groups who are the lowlife's in this debate.
Blaming wolves for their shortcomings as humans all the while projecting right-wing hate group and even white supremacist/KKK rhetoric.
You can read about the company you keep here with the report from the Southern Poverty Law Center's Hate Watch: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2014/03/25/long-running-conspiracist-fears-still-fuel-anti-wolf-sentiments-in-mountain-states/#disqus_thread

Cheers

fisher99999

You have zero facts and all emotion. It's clear that you possess some sorta hate for wildlife. Please seek help or get better meds

Iceman9
Iceman9

You just described yourself, Bruce Hemorrhage. No respect for the living. The only reason people like you want the elk and moose around is to use it as target practice. Same with the vast majority of wildlife. Who's the Satan-worshipper now?

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