Charging document: Missoula man waited up to shoot 'kid'

I don't understand what the problem is here after reading these comments.
1. The young man chose to enter a garage @ 1230 am without permission becoming a burglar.
2. The homeowner killed the burglar.
3. If you don't understand this, why don't you put all of your posessions on the curb for everyone else to pick through and take what they want.
4. His use of drugs doesn't matter.
5. The burglar chose his own fate. He was responsible for his decision, NO ONE else

Gee, I'm surprised that marijuana had some involvement in this story. Oh that's right, that's what I suggested with my first comment when the first story was released. I believe folks with the "shoot first and ask questions later" mindset are part of the drug culture, as it just doesn't make sense to be so fearful of others. People that are so concerned about others coming onto their property and stating they "will shoot them to protect their family" are likely doing something, or have something that others want bad enough to come take it. Meth? Perhaps a lab to produce large volumes of meth? Pot? Perhaps a grow operation? Again, it doesn't make sense to have to state they will kill to protect when it typically isn't necessary, unless drugs are involved. Then again, perhaps these rodeo clowns are simply lonely and want to be all together somewhere to share in their feelings. Somewhere like Deer Lodge.

So, what's your low-profile, non-social neighbor doing these days? Notice any funny smells?

When you review the comments below, it's interesting to consider that our current laws have allowed these individuals to legally obtain firearms without any consideration to their mental stability and intent. That in itself speaks volumes.

Maybe this conversation wouldn't take place if there was no castle doctrine. When did it become okay to shoot, kill, glorify for property over life? ? … why would anyone want to kill someone over something they own?… besides a life, seriously what is all that important in anyones garage, home, yard, car, or the no one made you work hard for what ever you own, that was your choice, your own reward and good for you, but killing over it… seriously? … I understand protection against psychopathic intruders… which ya know real ones are few and far between… however there seems to be more created everyday. What kind of society do you want to be part of… leave to our children? Let trained people handle this kind of thing, it is what we pay them to do… the castle doctrine obviously protects no one.

I see two stories here.

A man who does not have the conscience morality to feel that shooting someone is abhorent. And maybe someone who can kill without conscience is best kept in prison.

And a kid who would not have been shot if he had the conscience morality to know stealing was wrong. Yes, as bad as it sounds, when you enter another persons home with intent to commit a felony, you are asking for it.

How do you know the kid wasn't trying to help? What if he saw a purse on the floor of an open garage, and thought, "Hey -- I'll pick this up and bring it to them before someone steals it"?

Nobody deserves to be killed because they walk into an open garage. He did not "get what he deserved." Good Lord, people in this country have gone crazy.

The homeowner should be charged with murder. He could have "waited up" to call the police instead of killing a minor.

Many here seem to want to disregard the rule of law & have the right to arbitrarily hand out vigilante justice as they see fit. Before we start down that path you'd better take a few minutes to consider what that really means.

Disregarding the rule of law & taking justice into your own hands also means that someone else could take matters into his own hands if he felt wronged by you.

Say, for example, that you had a property line dispute with a neighbor. He feels, rightly or wrongly, that you've stolen some of his property because you've put up a fence that he feels takes 1' of his land away from him. When you don't move the fence back, if you're in favor of "rough justice", you could well be on the receiving end of a shotgun. It's no different than this case, where something that should have been settled by law enforcement & the courts was handled with a firearm instead.

As imperfect as it is we need the rule of law & our court system. If not, we'll turn into a country like Somalia where the guy with the biggest gang & arsenal rules. I know that some of you fantasize taking matters into your own hands John Wayne style but who the heck wants to live in a country where all disputes are settled by brute violence?

I think this guy shows just how easy it is to catch people, probably up to no good

why doens't our police set these types of stings ALL THE TIME, you can easily profile the dipsticks in this town and have a field day with them

no, I don't think it is right he shot and killed this kid, punishment should fit the crime, the kid should have had to pay their cell phone bills for a year or mow their lawn for a summer or... I'm sure we could come up with something

Not being an attorney, I am aware of the "malice aforethought" principle as it may apply to the frame of mind Kaarma was in when he decided to shoot whomever was prowling his property.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malice_aforethought

A trial will (hopefully) resolve this case, but I'm sure the prosecution will establish this frame of mind of Kaarma when he answered his security devices. Intent of the accused will be key in this trial.

Just like the Jordan Johnson charges, people jump to conclusions, the Missoulian tries to taint the jury pool way before a court preceding has started. The charging documents are just that, alleged charges.

Why do you need a license to drive, but no license to own a gun and to know how to handle it in different situations? EVERY M*ron can get one, even though he might be a psycho or just an agressive c*nt?!

I feel like the man had a right, clearly he had no idea who had been breaking into his garage. And until more details are know, but if they had intent to steal from the property then their isn't a whole lot more to say on this.

Read this.... It's like déjà vu!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/29/minnesota-homeowner-kills-teens/8480047/

People supporting this guy are insane. The Castle Doctrine was intended to allow people to defend themselves. Someone coming into an open garage carrying NOTHING does not warrant "defense." Someone coming through a window with a gun does. Do these people really not see the clear line? One of the first rules of owning a gun is that you HAVE to know what you are shooting at. This guy shot in the dark blindly, like a paranoid idiot. Do we really want to live somewhere that people get shot for "trespass?" Do we want to live in fear that if we see our neighbor's car, parked on the street with its interior light on and we go to turn it off for them that we might get SHOT?! Call the cops, let them take care of trespass. Take a picture of the perpetrator. But shoot?! WTF! Seriously, this is crazyville. No credit card or purse is worth killing over. Values is something a lot of people claim to base their decisions on, but when it comes down to it, most of these purported "values" are a bunch of b.s.

A lot of you people are assuming this kid was a criminal but there has been no proof or statement to back that up. Until there is your claims that this was justified as a B&E don't hold any water. You have no idea what his intentions where yet the intentions of this home owner were very clear--he wanted to kill someone and he did.

A responsible gun owner does not shoot into the dark multiple times without seeing his/her target and what is behind it. He should have remained in the house and if an intruder tried to break in he would have every right to use deadly force at that point. His comments a few days before the event about shooting teenagers, his movement to the garage from the outside of the house after setting up the bait and the surveillance system, and the fact that he was dealing with alleged previous thefts by teenagers from his garage (as opposed to more dangerous threats) will rightly discredit his claim of fear-based self-defense in front of the jury. He was clearly itching to shoot someone and his lack of self-control will cost him as it should.

As a Montanan I am sickened, but not surprised. As of late we all have been complacent in allowing Montana to become the harbinger of crazy ideology.
I read the posted court documents, the home owners statements, and can only see one ending. He goes to jail for premeditated murder.
As a proud, gun loving citizen of Montana I would love to see the EU place economic sanctions on Montana. If our beef, grain, and other products were not allowed to be shipped over seas, then I bet we would see a great effort in changing crazy, misguided gun rights without infringing on ownership. It is time we take a stand against radical factions, and bring back civility and safety to Montana .

And from todays news.....hrmmmmmmm....LITTLE FALLS, Minn. (AP) — A Minnesota homeowner who shot and killed two teenagers during a break-in was convicted Tuesday of premeditated murder.

Byron Smith had claimed he was simply defending himself during the break-in at his home in the small city of Little Falls on Thanksgiving Day 2012. Smith's attorney said the 65-year-old was fearful after previous burglaries.

But prosecutors argued that Smith waited in his basement and intended to kill the teens. A total of nine shots were fired at 17-year-old Nick Brady and 18-year-old Haile Kifer.

Jurors began deliberating Tuesday morning and within three hours had a verdict: Guilty on two counts each of first-degree and second-degree murder. Mothers of the teens cried as the verdicts were read, while Smith showed no emotion. Defense attorney Steve Meshbesher said he would appeal.

The teens' killings stirred debate around the state and in Little Falls — a Mississippi River city of 8,000 about 100 miles northwest of Minneapolis — about how far a homeowner can go in responding to a threat. Minnesota law allows deadly force to prevent a felony from taking place in one's home or dwelling, but one's actions must be considered reasonable under the circumstances.

Prosecutors said Smith's plan was set in motion on the morning of the killings, after Smith saw a neighbor whom he believed responsible for prior burglaries drive by. Prosecutors say Smith moved his truck to make it look like no one was home, and then settled into a chair in his basement with a book, energy bars, a bottle of water and two guns.

Smith also set up a hand-held recorder on a bookshelf, which captured audio of the shootings — key evidence in the prosecution's case. Smith had also installed a surveillance system that recorded images of Brady trying to enter the house.

The audio, which was played several times in court, captured the sound of glass shattering, then the sounds of Smith shooting Brady three times as he descended the basement stairs. Smith can be heard saying, "You're dead." Prosecutors said Smith put Brady's body on a tarp and dragged him into another room, then sat down, reloaded his weapon and waited.

About 10 minutes later, Kifer came downstairs. More shots are heard on the recording, then Kifer's screams, with Smith saying, "You're dying." It's followed soon after by another shot, which investigators said Smith described as "a good, clean finishing shot."

The teens were unarmed, but Smith's attorneys had said he feared they had a weapon.

The tape continued to run, and Smith was heard referring to the teens as "vermin." Smith waited a full day before asking a neighbor to call police.

Smith did not testify on his own behalf. Meshbesher highlighted previous burglaries on Smith's property, including one on Oct. 27 that included the theft of weapons. A neighbor testified that Smith came to his door after that burglary and appeared very frightened. Meshbesher said Smith wrote a memo to the Morrison County Sheriff's Office on Oct. 29 asking them to investigate.

Meshbesher said in his closing arguments that the teens would still be alive if they hadn't broken into Smith's house. He also said Smith had a legal right to use deadly force to defend himself.

Before retiring from the U.S. State Department, Smith worked on technical security issues for American embassies, such as building layout and alarms.

Kifer was a senior who was active in athletics at Little Falls High School. Brady was a student and a wrestler at that school before transferring to nearby Pillager High School, where he was a junior. They were cousins.

Court documents that were not allowed as evidence showed Brady had broken into Smith's house and garage before. Brady and Kifer were also linked to another burglary the day before they were killed; stolen prescription drugs were found in the car they were driving.

Judge Douglas Anderson excluded evidence about the teens' histories from the trial as irrelevant

Anyone else notice the error on the complaint that we filed? ...In Great Clips on August 23, 2014...nice error on an official document filed with the courts, signed even...did they even read it before they signed it?! Hacks.

He doesn't sound like a responsible gun owner to me. Affidavit reads like premeditated murder.

Bad Kaarma.

the castle doctrine is still in effect here. It all happened very fast and the property owner had no idea if the guy had a gun , knife or other weapon. What exactly was the kid looking for? There are not many facts here to rush to judgment.

If I was Markus Kaarma I wouldn't care if anyone like me or not for what I did. As far as I'm concerned he did what he had to do.That little punk and his punk friend had no business be in or on someone else's property and got what he deserved.Too bad is friend didn't get shot too. The hell with all the bleeding hearts.

Wenn dieses Kind nicht in Privateigentum gebrochen, würde er noch leben. Es ist traurig, die Position legte er die Familie in Kaarma, aber Gesetzesbrecher selten kümmern uns um die Menschen, die sie schädigen. Bitte beenden Sie kritisieren unsere Gesetze, sein unser Land und seine Offensive, die Sie arrogant genug, um so etwas tun würde.

Wenn Sie überhaupt eine noble Land waren, würden Sie einen Fonds zu helfen, zahlen die Kosten für diese Studie für die Familie Kaarma

Schließlich ist es eine deutsche, die die ganze Sache gestartet.

kaarma is a cold blooded murderer. Kudos to Missoula Police for arresting him and to the CA for filing the Deliberate Homicide charge.

Baiting these kids, then hiding behind a barier to wait for his prey does not a frightened homeowner make.

He set a trap with the intent to kill the person who entered that trap. He's not a hero, he's a cold-blooded murderer.

And, no, I'm not a "college town liberal transplant." I'm a 5th generation Montanan, a gun owner, and someone who believes a person has a right to defend his property and home, but this creep set a trap and used lethal force when it was entirly uncalled for. He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Well, we know Main Hall breathed a sigh of relief knowing this wasn't a UM foreign exchange student. Though, it's too bad Mr. Kaarma isn't a Korean UM professor . . . he could have killed a high school student and walked.

Google "Byron Smith" when you get a chance. He was convicted of murder for doing the same thing Kaarma did.

I liken the Castle Doctrine to our national strategic defense posture during the Cold War, referred to as Mutual Assured Destruction. Our nuclear weapons served as a deterrent, with a sincere hope that they were never used.
In MT, burglars, rapists, vandals, etc. should know they risk their lives when trespassing with criminal intent because of the Castle Doctrine. I believe most property owners here in MT, though willing if necessary, sincerely hope they never have to use deadly force. But I believe the ability for one to protect life/property is an effective deterrent.
In this tragic case, the shooter used extremely poor judgement. I understand his frustration with repeated burglaries, but he had better options (i.e. guard dog in the garage).
The shooter and his wife are mostly responsible for this tragedy, IMHO, but the youth did make a conscious decision to enter the garage and his friends who probably encouraged him to make this very poor decision (an exchange student most likely unfamiliar with MT's laws/culture of protection of property) let him down. I have a child who knew this boy and is familiar with the "game" that Big Sky boys "play" that encourages them to break into garages. Though one may characterize it as youthful indiscretion, it is this failure in their culture that was most likely the catalyst.
My heart goes out to this boy's parents and family. No way they could have imagined this happening - very, very, sad.
I can't imagine the shooter or wife feeling anything but deep remorse.

I would rather be robbed blind that murder anyone over "stuff" in my garage.

ALL this enthusiasm about PROPERTY RIGHTS.......yet you morons continue to elect progressives like Engen into office. The man robs you every year......steals the monies right out of your wallet, and he cares not that you may be elderly and on a fixed income. You voted for Baucus and Tester........they helped to stick you with the largest tax increase in 30yrs.......Omabacare.......no outrage there either? We see Mayor Potato Head trying hard to straddle you with high water bills for eternity........and you do nothing.

But when kid trespasses into a murderer's garage you scream and nash teeth? You would have the kid killed for attempting to steal items from a car? Yes.....you would. This is why Missoula is in the world news.

If the attorney does his job, there will be a plea agreement and Missoula will be spared a legal/media circus.

Murder of unarmed people is reserved for the police and the ATF........all others will face a severe penalty.

There was no self defense here.......that is absurd. We don't shoot petty thieves in this country........in fact, they don't even do that in Yemen (but they will cut your hand off).

Forget the Castle Doctrine......it does not shield you from premeditated murder.

Wait for the details to come out on Kaarma's past.........we will see what a dirt bag he is.

Is there a defense fun being set up to aid Mr Kaarma with his legal cost?

Please post as I intend to donate

For Our German Visitors:

Seien Sie sehr vorsichtig, nicht eine verrückte Amerikaner mit einem mitfühlenden amerikanischen verwirren. Nicht jeder in diesem Land ist wütend und ängstlich. Einige von uns haben viel gereist und fühlen sich wie ein Bürger der Welt. Glauben verlieren Sie nicht in Ihre Nachbarn über den großen Teich. Anständige Menschen sind so krank und so traurig mit dem tragischen Verlust von Diren Dede wie Sie und Ihre Landsleute, und wir freuen uns sehr leid für diesen Jungen Diren Rede und seine Familie.

The Missoulian is selectively adding or refusing to add comments. I wonder how many comments they actually received? My advice to attorney Paul Ryan, get a change of venue. With the exception of Missoula, your client can get a fair trial in Lake County, Ravalli County, Sanders County, and other counties without an influx of liberal University transplants. This is second amendment right country and they won't get 12 people to find a scared homeowner guilty for protecting his property, his wife and his baby from a thief in his garage in the middle of the night.

WHERE was all this ENTHUSIASM when Mr. Potato Head tried to steel Mountain Water? Where is the outrage when the Central Committee insists we must have special tax districts. Why don't you people get this excited when the School Commissioners gave Alex the Hobbit a big fat pay raise (and now want more monies to give teachers raises)?

Once again.......Missoula is in national news, and it is not for our college football team. We have murder on our hands. If you don't see this premeditated murder as a problem, you might feel more at home across the border in Idaho with a nice bunch of fellows with shiney bald white heads.

He, the 'kid', commited an adult crime, and payed with his life. If you are man enough to do a B&E, you're man enough to face the consequences of your actions...which just so happen to be his life in this case. The homeowner did not break any laws, and needs to be released. He defended his person and property from an intruder. Don't give two sh!ts about why this 'kid' was there, in the middle of the night, he was committing a crime. Why hasn't his friend been charged with felony B&E as well as the murder of the 'kid'...if someone dies in the commission of a crime, you are responsible for their death. If you want to changed the homeowner, you have to charge the friend who ran away as well.

Wow. I've never seen so many comments on a Missoulian story, not even close. I guess that's thanks to our European friends.

@ democide--you are one sick person who should seek some professional help ASAP.

I read much of this tragedy in german newspaper,in germany we have no right to defense our property w weapon special vs foreign intruders the last trial here against a 80 years old man he was tortured from the intruders not orign german and after the torture he kill one of the 4 intruder now he have a trial back to this case i read in german newspaper the us citizen used a bag for trap but in the night nobody cant see the bag and the young man from turkey looking for drinks in the garage what he want drink there patrol?with a little bit education you know thats not allowed and it can becomes dangerous in usa to enter the property of unknown people.now we have the typical us bashing about weapons( in germany have only the criminals weapons) in all newspapers here,in germany i have the impression the criminals have more rights than the victims.the usa have much more justice if u are a victim i think now is court resposible.

After growing up in Missoula I realized that the only person to protect my property and family was going to have to be myself, not by calling the local police, sheriff, or praying to a Jesus/God. Look at the incident that happened to Byron Smith, claimed he was armed and ready for the intruders — Nick Brady, 17, and 18-year-old Haile Kifer — because of previous break-ins at his Little Falls Minnesota home before the Thanksgiving Day 2012 shooting.

Markus Kaarma and Byron Smith both had every right to defend their property, they were robbed, trespassed and called the authorities. The authorities failed the homeowners in both cases if they would have done their job and followed up and perused the predators no one would be dead. However, had a predator (boy/boy’s) illegally enter my garage at 12:30am I would have treated them like any other nuisance’s, pest, varmint, or predators (insects, mice, rats, coyotes, wolves, bears, or thieves included). I’d exterminate, or eradicate them by any means how (I live outside of Missoula City limits) by implementing the Shoot, Shovel, and Shut up.

. Markus Kaarma, and Byron Smith should be released and be held as heroes, they have saved us taxpayers’ from possible harm not to forget the money that it would cost to prosecuted and incarcerate these lowlife thieves. Unfortunately Mr. Kaarma had a change of heart and the authorities were called. Diren Dede and the other boy (let’s call him Little Coward) deliberately went to this home to prey (not pray) onto their properties.

Yes, Kaarma "baited" the garage to catch an intruder, nuisances, pest, varmint, or predators. Kaarma made attempts to eradicate them by calling the police (legal exterminators) but to no avail. Kaarm was forced to take matters into his own hand to protect his family, and property. So what if he told the Great Clips stylist that he had been up several nights waiting to "shoot some kid." I brag all the time to my barber about my ways of exterminating’s of nuisances, pest, varmint, or predators. That isn’t a crime! Anyone who thinks otherwise probably has Head Lice. Ditto on the following……

“”This resident, did the exact same thing that those who are charged with protecting us, do every single day in every city in America, he set a trap to catch a criminal, the police call it a sting operation. The fact it was a German exchange student has nothing to do with it, the fact that the shooter said he was going to shoot a ******* kid has nothing to do with it. We as a society condone these actions when a police officer does it and we charge a civilian when he does it. Police hold sting operations because the same crime happens time and time again, how many times does it have to happen, before they make a decision to do it, how many times does a civilian have to wait, before he makes the exact same choice, once? Twice? In this case 3 times.”” And what about the host family, are they going to accept any responsibility?

Unfortunately Diren Dede, and Little Coward made the choice to endanger their own lives Diren Dede lost, the kid caused his own death. Little Coward should thank his lucky stars that he is still amongst us. He was someplace illegally. You can defend your property with force, if you feel threatened. The kid initiated a crime and paid the price. Case closed. I agree “Private property owners are losing their rights every day and we need to stand up and fight for it.”

There's two issues going on here.
One, if the man did set up the student and killed him like it appears he did, it's murder.
Two, if he shot the student thinking he was himself in danger, he would presumably have a defense, but would that defense be useless if he laid and waited for the student?
I know of an incident similar to this that happened years ago that involved a co-worker.
His truck was robbed several times in his driveway and laid in waiting at night, watching out the window for the person to return and one night he saw a man break in to his truck and killed him with a shotgun, claiming the man went at him. He went to prison.
Sounds like this guy is toast.

Ah yes, the old set up an ambush, bait the trap, grab the shotgun, cut off the retreat, shoot first, fire all your rounds, and say you had to because you were frightened ploy.

Yawn. Oh, well, sadly the Glacier Park cliff killer case is over. So we need some new fat to chew. Fill your bellies, Missoula. Fill your bellies.

Btw, Paul McCartney plays Grizzly Stadium on August 5. But $300 for a ticket?! Going all the way up to $1,200! Seriously?! I wouldn't walk across the street to see that geriatric pop rocker, let alone pay to see him.

Oh, and just in case Godwin's Law has not yet been invoked in this discussion--especially given it involves a German citizen--I will just go ahead and get it over with now: Hitler.

Who will protect our children from living in a terror zone? No one wins in this situation. The home-stay family must be grieving and sick with sorrow. The kid who was with the victim must have post traumatic grief, the mother of the baby will suffer from the memory of the trauma. The neighborhood Grant Creek will now have a house that cannot be sold because of a murder. A German family is in mourning. A promising youth has been shot and killed . The youth of Grant Creek are now playing in a terror zone.

Denny D
Has it crossed your mind that if people in your country had a gun in every house, the NAZIs wouldn't have been able to exterminate 10 million people? Hundreds of thousands of Americans would've have been killed or wounded to save your country and the rest of Europe, and quite likely the world from the NAZIs.
Let that sink in for a minute before you make some ignorant statement about American gun ownership.

People talk about him being 17 as if he were a baby. I'm quite physically fit. 'in my prime' probably. Im sure There are plenty of 17 year olds that I would not want to mess with. When I was 17 there were plenty of people the homeowners age that wouldn't have wanted to mess with me. 17 year olds are more than capable of hurting people.

America is broken if instead of raising children, we kill them when a mistake is made.

Spin this however you want, but shooting an unarmed minor is a colossal failure of principle.

Kids make bad decisions. It's part of growing up. If you believe children should die the moment they transgress, then perhaps you are not the human you think you are.

This guy has been out on bail since 5PM Monday! Why was this allowed and why such a low bail amount?!?! This is truly unbelievable!

I don't give a *hit if this man feared for his life or not. Five major safety rules of gun ownership. 1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded. (Obviously he knew it was...) 2. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you intend to shoot. (Obvious he intended to shoot the whole time...) 3. Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot. (Again, he intended to shoot the whole time.) 4. Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire. (Hmmm... sensing a trend here...) 5. ALWAYS BE AWARE OF YOUR TARGET AND ITS SURROUNDINGS!!!! If this man was following all of these rules, as any gun owner should, this tragic and reckless MURDER would not have happened. This man is guilty. He was not defending his home, he was killing a kid, on purpose no less. A child people. A CHILD!!! If this man did not know well enough to take cover and wait until he could identify his target and his target's threat level before opening fire, then he should not have owned a gun in the first place.

I am a proud gun owner. I support responsible gun ownership. I also support taking responsibility for your actions.

My heart goes out to this family.
May this poor child rest in peace.
May the world learn a lesson from this travesty.
I doubt it. We never do.

I highly doubt the castle doctrine will stand up in court based on the homeowners statement that they set a trap, they also can not prove that a felony was in progress. I'm sure that they could have turned on the garage lights after the man was in front of the garage with a weapon for protection. however purposely leaving the garage door open is an invite to burglar's and any curious kid. Frankly there should have been NO BAIL at all for this man. cripes, they could have installed a regular home security system and have it monitored by a company which would have alerted police. but NO, the homeowner had a desire to murder a kid. Frankly I hope he gets convicted and that we can hang him by the neck until dead. We do not need people like that homeowner in this city. many homeowners in this city have home security systems with video, but not these people.

That kid shouldn't have been on someone else's property.Too bad his friend didn't get shot too.Who cares of it was a sting? The pig cops set people up all the time and they get away with fatally shooting people all the time.The only difference is they wear a badge that makes it okay.

Rereading the story, this just caught my eye:
"Ryan said that Pflager – who was in the courtroom with the couple’s young child – held the young man in her arms while he died."
Well, NO, she didn't! According to the police, Kaarma and Pflager were standing in front of their house when they arrived. The victim, Diren Dede, was still alive then and alone in the garage.

Is this statement representative for defence attorney Ryan's handling of the facts in general? Looks like he tries to put his clients in a positive emotional light, with a manipulative distortion of the truth. Here's hoping the media won't let him get away with such shenanigans.

The kid caused his own death. He was someplace illegally. You can defend your property with force, if you feel threatened. The kid initiated a crime and paid the price. Case closed. The prosecution will do their best to convict the homeowner. Private property owners are losing their rights every day and we need to stand up and protect what's ours.

At the end of the day, the only question really is:
Was the kid in the attached garage lawfully or not?
Doesn't matter where the homeowner shot from, if he had a string of tin cans to alert him or a buzzer, if his garage door was half way down or all the way up, if there was a purse or a stack of gold bars in the garage.
It's his property, was the kid in the attached garage lawfully or not?
Trial will be interesting.

I'm glad that everyone already knows for sure he wasn't just attempting to close the door for his neighbor, or trying to alert them to their leaving their garage door open and a purse sitting on the trunk of the car. Oh that's right, nobody knows squat and are simply guessing what occurred. At least the shooter, his girlfriend and the stylist told the story straight to assist the court in finding hm guilty of deliberate homicide, since it was nothing short of that.

Terrible and very sad for everyone. But just one question, why was the kid in the garage at 12:30am?

So now it is illegal to have cameras and motion detectors on one's private property? It is now illegal to leave the garage door open? It is now illegal to forget one's purse in said garage? If the shooter was inside watching TV how is this considered laying a trap? How is one to know if the illegal trespasser is an out of control meth head? I guess wait for to be assaulted before defending your castle. Is that now the law? IF, IF, IF! Well, if the 17 yo was at home instead of running the streets........if the 17 yo just kept walking past the garage......if the 17 yo would have had a gun he could have shot first.......everything I've read thus far is circumstantial, the hairdresser is hearsay, unless recorded, the cops testimony, the victims were traumatized and not of right mind when giving a statement. The laying of a trap, prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. You wont be able to.

Based on the defendant's lying in wait, his statements indicating his intent, and his apparent setting of a "trap," is is my belief that the prosecution will have an excellent chance of being able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, the shooting was NOT justifiable use of force. But then again, that is what a trial is for.

For people who are confused about why a german kid would enter a garage, keep in mind:

In germany you cannot legally or practically (because no one owns firearms) be shot because of it. He probably just innocently wante to investigate why there was a purse lying around and maybe give it back to the owner of the garage.

Getting shot is the occupational hazard of a robber. You do not sneak around in the garages of other people at night. The house defender hat no clue if there was not a robber in his garage wich was armed him self. (What they normaly are) Its very sad that a 17 year old has been killed because of that. But its at worldwide news and thousands of kids get aware of it and will rethink their actions befor doing the same stupidity themself. No matter if the guy who shot the kid was right or wrong with that. The result will be a bit more safety for house owners.

My two cents after this story made it into headlines on all major German news websites yesterday and today:

I base my comment on what is known this far: The student went for a purse, set up as a bait. He was shot because of trespassing and attempted theft.

What troubles me is the massive disproportionality between preventing a theft and or trespassing and taking a life.

I can understand that if there's an imminent threat to your life or health, you should have the right use lethal force if necessary. The same goes if you see your family's, friend's or any third person's life or health endangerd. I can even understand that you would try to stop a thief who tries to steel property of HIGH value.

Behond that it is hard to grasp that it is be justified to take a life (certainly the most valuable thing there is) without at least due process. And even state imposed death I find hard to justify.

You would't have to fear for your life if you'd enter someones property without consent here in Germany. You could even steal the bike out of the garage without having to fear for your life. Even though both are criminal offenses. Of course the victim might defend himself with every means available to him, but killing the perpetrator in these cases would in no way be justified. Defense is ok punishment is not (only the German state might punish - capital punishment though is abolished).

I do not say that this is how it should be handled in the US and I do understand that in states like Montana, where it might take law enforcement a long time to come to your help, self-defense has a whole different status, which cannot be compared to a densely populated country like Germany. But nontheless killing a human being should always be the last resort!

The comment section makes it clear that not every US citizen is a gun-wielding cowboy - matter of fact certainly only a minority is (looking forward for Nazi comparisons ;) ). It is refreshing to see, that people in the US share the same humane sentiment as I and find this killing - at least from what we know now - disproportionate and wrong.

A child is slain and the simpletons flock to the comments page to post their adolescent name-calling drivel on yet another article... fracking tea bag wing ding pinko compost biscuits!!

If you look up the adresses in maps, you will notice that the home oft the kid is about 100yrds across the street from the garage where he was shot.

Since it was the end of his exchange year, the gunner and the kid might even have known each other.

In the affidavid it says that they watched the intruder on video (even took photographs of the screen) - but later in the garage it was so dark that he couldn't even see what he was shooting at?

Up till now, all we know for shure is that Diren is dead. Everything else is told by the people who shot him.

This story might as well turn out completely different!

Come on! If you are trying to Protect your family, you don't chum the waters! This guy, and his lovely wife laid a trap.... for a while. No one knows this kid was the same who broke in before. They set a trap and they waited.... for anyone. It wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when. At best, this kid trespassed, while being baited. It is so sad, I can't believe it.

Death by firearms in Germany in 2013 (without suicides): 54
Death by firearms in the US in 2013 (without suicides): about 13200

Regarding the fact, that the population in the US is about four times as high as in Germany, it is 60 (!!!) times more likely to get killed by firearms here than it is in Germany.

Do firearms really make your community saver?

This kid was my youngest brothers best friend. I've only read a few posts/comments before I just had to comment. Some comments of these people are just ignorant and have no sense at all. If this was your kid, I bet a million $ you would not feel that this was justified. I understand someone protecting there family and of course not wanting there stuff to be stolen, but this does not give anyone the right to kill. This was a kid, unarmed and not harming the owner. He was a kid making bad decisions. If this was your child, would you forgive the man that blatantly shot, trapped and killed your son because he thought he could score on petty stuff? Would you think then it's ok he took your child's life over it? He is not above the law, he could have shot in the air to scare then off. I bet they wouldn't try that again, he could have called the police and say there is an intruder, he took pics of the kids face. He got him. But no, he took this kids life instead. Complete senseless act and taking the law into his own hands by trapping some kids. He wanted and stated he wanted to shoot a kid. Killing is something you can't take back. Kids will always do stupid things, they are peer pressured into it and are not fully developed to fully understand the consequences of there actions. This kids parents are overseas and just made a really bad choice with an insane person wanting to kill. It would may have been a different story if he didn't set a trap and just called 911 to let law enforcement do there job. This guy knew these kids were not harming him or his family, so the law states unless you are threatened or feel you are going to be harmed you cannot shoot or kill someone. He knew it was kids stealing stuff. That's why he trapped him... To shoot n kill a kid. Not self defense, this was pre-meditated murder in the first degree. No child, wether he is doing good or being naughty should ever have there life cut short due to another persons hand. Some people make me sick. People try to justify there idiotic actions and comments. I'm praying for my baby brother to get through this horrific time in his life hearing his best friend died a senseless death and hope he can find a way to celebrate his friends life and not do anything stupid too as kids can do. If you can say you never did wrong, you're a liar and lying is doing wrong too. We are human and make mistakes. As a grown adult, we learn from those mistakes and make things right. This kid will never get the chance now. For all those who believe this was justified, think about if this was your kid, would you think differently then? I believe you would. Otherwise, I don't give a darn. It's just not justified.

Like I said on other posts........who is Markus Karrma? where did he come from? Is there a pile of trouble behind him? What he did appears to be premeditated murder........ummm......can't do that. But I tell you this.....it's not much different than the fellow in stevensville that shot a unarmed young man in his garage, or the cop that shot the unarmed dope dealer last summer, or the cop that shot the the unarmed woman in her car (driving away). For a town full of liberals, there sure are some some strange ideas on "Justified" homicide. The castle doctrine must go........it is absurd and it is not needed. No one needs a law to justify self defense, we are all entitled to defend ourselves with deadly force.

But when you shoot a man or kid for stealing a cell phone a and a couple of credit cards, you got blood on your hands. The only people that get away with this are the cops and the so called "Castle Doctrine"killers. If you really beleive you have the right to use deadly force to protect a few valuables, you are truly a neanderthal.

In what world other than the alternate reality of increasingly violent video games, movies, and TV, is killing a trespassing kid an adequate form of problem-solving? I work with troubled kids every day whose early and pro-longed exposure to these violent mediums is effecting them the exact same way that it is effecting most of the people on this thread. I only wish you people had access to quality mental health services then you wouldn't be justifying contemplated deliberate homicide the way you are now. Real life is very different than the life you lead in your Xbox, television, and netflix account. I hope you all learn the difference someday soon... I'm so tired of reading these tragic headlines.

I still believe that the kid shouldn't have been in the garage, however, after reading the charging document I have to say that Mr. Kaarma did not need to go to that extent. Much better to lock everything up than set a trap. OK. I can admit when I'm wrong. I apologize for sounding insensitive in my earlier posts. Obviously the " castle doctrine" should not apply here. It says you have the right to defend not set a trap and lay and wait.

I just can't mourn a burglar getting shot.

That said, the foolish people who maintain that "perhaps guns weren't made for killing people" are ignorant or insane. Taking a look at early guns makes their purpose obvious. Many early guns were designed with the intent that, once you had fired your one bullet, you now held a perfectly serviceable mace. Nobody hunts with maces... or ever has.

Not only that, but every important advent in gun technology was made with war uses in mind: rifling, submachine guns, scopes, hollow points, speedloading...

Guns are (and were) made for killing people. And they do a darn good job of it. Consider that the murder rate in Calgary is less than half the murder rate of Seattle (1.6 per 100,000 in the four most recent years of data versus 3.4 per 100,000 for those same years). It just isn't as easy, convenient, nor fun to stab someone to death. It takes a lot more effort.

Thank God that idiot over in Pennsylvania didn't have a gun. He TRIED to kill people, hurt 20... and killed zero.

Remember December 14? A lunatic attacked 20 schoolchildren and killed... zero. You might remember that story differently but that is because on that same day there was a different lunatic who was much more successful here in the U.S. The lunatic who attacked 20 and killed zero... was a knifeman in China.

Paul Ryan has become Missoula's Johnnie Cochran. He seems to thrive on representing pure scum.

Just to add, I am not a cold blooded blood sucker, my family is also a victim of a loss to gun violence, my sister was shot and kill several years ago by her abusive husband, he shot her in the head while she was sleeping, then shot himself, so he would not have to face the consequences of his action, he was a coward who said, if I can't have her, nobody will.

My heart goes out to all families that have lost loved ones to violence especially when it is a young person who has had no real chance to live, my condolences are with this young mans family and friends both here and in Germany, I am sorry you have lost so much, that hurt will forever remain with you.

To summarize:

- Man gets robbed twice in past few weeks. Gets frustrated that the police can't catch the crook
- So, man sets a trap for the would-be burglar by leaving garage door open half way at night with a purse sitting pretty in plain sight
- Man sets up motion detectors and a camera to catch the burglar in act

Ok, so now that he has an image of the burglar, you think the police could positively identify the kid and arrest him. Missoula is a small town.

-Nope, man opens fire in the dark killing an unarmed 17 year old kid.

I did a lot of crazy stuff when I was in high school and college, and trespassing was definitely one of them. I'm so glad some nutcase didn't decide to open fire on me, and rob me of the chance to get older, have a family, job and lean from my mistakes.

This is so sick it makes my stomach hurt. If Markus gets off the hook, I hope there's riots. This is so wrong.

After reading the prosecutors affidavit, this will indeed be an interesting case, not only to prosecute, but to defend. This resident, did the exact same thing that those who are charged with protecting us, do every single day in every city in America, he set a trap to catch a criminal, the police call it a sting operation. The fact it was a German exchange student has nothing to do with it, the fact that the shooter said he was going to shoot a ******* kid has nothing to do with it. We as a society condone these actions when a police officer does it and we charge a civilian when he does it. Police hold sting operations because the same crime happens time and time again, how many times does it have to happen, before they make a decision to do it, how many times does a civilian have to wait, before he makes the exact same choice, once? twice? in this case 3 times.

This will be a precedence setting case that could and will have ramifications country wide.

The comments to a hairdresser will be considered hearsay. And last time I checked setting a "so called trap" in your own garage isn't illegal. You still need somebody to break the law and enter the property or garage illegally.

If this kid had not broken the law he would probably still be alive. Ryan needs to go after the other kid he broke the law as well and needs to be dealt with

This is a tragedy for all involved but the simple fact is if the young man hadn' t decided to burglarize a home NONE of this would have happened.

Wow, Kaarma’s attorney, Paul Ryan sure can put a spin on things!! The evidence contradicts his defense statement. Everything about this was "lay in wait" with intention to end it then and there, once and for all when "they" finally caught their garage burglar. Vigilante justice is not acceptable behavior for this day and age in Montana.

"Castle Doctrine" does not apply if Kaarma actually exited his home and came around between truck in driveway and car in garage..does that mean he was standing Outside his garage and shot In?

It appears that the castle doctorine doesnt apply when you set up an intentional death-trap. Sounds like Kaarma is right where he belongs now, and I hope he rots in hell.

As a 50 year old missoula native glad people weren't trigger happy when we were young stupid maybe drunk..want to protect your life and property fine, but I would try to know what I was shooting at, person sneaking into my garage could have been one of my own kids sneaking back in...how bad would that be?

Just read the complaint filed against Kaarma. This poor kid was murdered. The Castle Doctrine doesn't protect people who bait, trap, then shoot repeatedly into their home from the outside. Disgusting.

so after reading the charging documents with more facts I've changed my feelings about this horrible event. .. no breaking into people's property is wrong tragically this boy paid for that with his life... however this guy's and his girlfriends actions are nothing but straight premeditated MURDER! they should BOTH be charged in my opinion!

@Responsible Jeeper. Thanks for the link. Missoulian made it sound like they were surprised by an intruder.

The complaint filed against Kaarma is now available to view. He will not get out of this MISTAKE. They "baited" the garage to catch an intruder, left the garage door open and used silent alerts in the driveway and garage. They even took screen caps from their security camera with a cell phone before the confrontation. He shot across the garage at head level blindly "to avoid hitting the car," yet hit him in the face twice?! Claims he never even saw the intruder. Days earlier, he told the Great Clips stylist that he had been up several nights waiting to "shoot some kid." Good lord! This is sickening!

Who is Markus Kaarma? Where did he come from? Does he have a job? Is he perhaps a drug dealer? Drug dealers are robbed all the time. Speak up out there in toyland......WHO IS HE?

The police have an idea who is is.......that is why he has been arrested.

Put your race card back in the deck........go tell some lies about the Tea Party or the burning earth.

If you are reading this from Hamburg, from Germany, from Europe or anywhere outside the US, please know that you cannot judge Missoula, Montana from those that comment online on this site. They are in NO way representative of the vast majority of people who call this area home. We do not even recognize our own community in these minority comments. Our community is saddened and shocked by this tragedy. Our hearts go out to Diren's family, parents, and grandparents who endure unimaginable grief from so far away. And to Diren's friends, host family, teachers, and soccer teammates here in town. We are so sorry.

Please keep male teens away from garages in Montana!

Star Tribune:

"Less than two hours before the Missoula shooting, a homeowner 350 miles away in Billings shot and wounded a houseguest he thought was an intruder.

The 19-year-old seminary student was making a phone call in the home's garage late Saturday when he was shot, Billings Police Sgt. Pat Curry said.

The student, who was not named, appeared to be shot in the chest, but the injury was not life-threatening, Curry said.

The homeowner, who also was not identified, probably won't face charges, Curry said."

I've lived in Missoula for almost 18 years now. 99.9% of the people here don't believe they're Wyatt Earp, but the other 0.1% think they are. Whatever junk he had in that garage wasn't worth a kid's life. The castle doctrine law doesn't mean you should be the judge and executioner of a teenage boy who just happened to make a bad decision. That's what the justice system is for.

Has anyone bothered to read the actual charges filed. They actually tell a lot more of the whole story than the Missoulian is doing.

http://missoulian.com/markus-kaarma-complaint/pdf_4be7befe-cf1e-11e3-b234-0019bb2963f4.html

I am a supporter of the Castle Doctrine however this case appears as if the guy was waiting to shoot someone for a couple of weeks according to his hair dresser.

Read the full affadavit. These people set up the kid (s). Hope the wife is charged and they both get jail time!

I love that people think they would act different if they found 2 people breaking into their house at 1 AM. I would love to see the statistics on what happens when you invite them in for tea and a Dr Phil episode. Check the statistics of places that prohibit firearms. Chicago tops that list with violence.

I wonder if this didn't involve a gun if the pro attorney/MPD folks would be so willing to beleive this time Missoula isn't going against the Montana constitution again. i personally also like the tradition of innocent until proven guilty, especially when not a single peice of evidence has been presented except the charge of guilt.

So, all of you who had already made up your mind before you knew any facts of the incident, what say you now that the prosecutor's affidavit is published? Not so cut and dried as you thought? To me, professionally, it's going to be an interesting case to follow. II it goes to trial, I presume justifiable use of force will be raised as a defense and it will be interesting to see how each side proceeds now that the so-called Castle doctrine has shifted the burden of proof of justifiable use of force to the prosecution. In other words, the prosecution has to not only prove he did the shooting beyond a reasonable doubt, but that, beyond a reasonable doubt, the shooting was NOT justifiable use of force. It could set important precedents in Montana law, because if it goes to trial, it also has a high chance of going before the Montana Supreme Court.

I fully support Montanas so called castle doctrine, afriend just sent me the charging documents in this case. While not excusing the.kid from being in the.garage this is.most definately murder. I am sure they will be posted on news sites soon and everyone else will probably agree and understand the charges.

I know Markus very well. We both come from the Seattle area and we were real good friends for several years while attending college at UM. Markus is a responsible person and definitely knows right from wrong. He owns a few firearms and always tended to them with the utmost safety & caution. He just recently became a new father and I know the security and protection of his family were very important to him. When this intruder broke into his place, I'm sure he was terrified but mustered up the courage to make sure whoever was inside his place wasn't going to hurt his family.

I feel sick about this whole thing. I feel for Dede and his family. I just don't know what would posses a kid that young with allot going on in his life, to break into someones home. I think about how terrified Markus & his wife must have been when their alarm went off in the middle of the night. I hope all of the families involved will be able to find peace after all of this is done.

But I do know Markus would not have done this unless he had to. Your home is where you are supposed to be safe and free from danger. A man has the right to protect himself and his family when someone compromises that safety. I would hate to see Markus's baby boy grow up without his father around all because he did his job as a father and protected his family.

So, Kaarma was a "law abiding citizen" up until this point. His gun changed everything, as it changes everything for millions of U.S citizens. Right now, the press runs at least 3 stories on people getting killed by guns, just in Missoula.

Get real, Folks. The gun was invented to kill people. Pure and simple. I don't know the statistics, but someone may be able to supply them, how many killings of humans with the gun was done by "law abiding citizens" vs. felons. What a farce. All in the name of "gun rights" guaranteed by the Second Amendment, which I might add, limited gun ownership to "a well-regulated militia."

Was Kaarma a member of a "well-regulated militia?" I think not. Ban gun ownership unless permitted for sport or collecting. Crack down on unauthorized gun ownership. The gun causes more domestic mayhem than any other hand-held device. And, don't give me that, "Well, knives, cars, etc., can kill people." Yes, but only the gun was invented specifically to kill people.

The 17-year-old boy who was shot and killed early Sunday was Diren Dede whos to say how tall or big he was?

I lived in Missoula City limits for 30 years, back in the day I hung around with “the wrong crowd”, we were siphoning gasoline from unsuspecting citizens automobiles at night. We got away with this crime for a week or so until myself a friend nailed a pickup. As I had already started the siphoning into a five a gallon can the owner arose from the bed of the pickup and grabbed my arm and held me. My friend took off and got away I screamed and the owner of the truck screamed too and woke his wife and the neighbors. The owner of the truck jumped out of the truck and had me pinned to the ground. The police were called after 20 minutes or so they showed up and as I was handcuffed and put into the back seat of the patrol car I started to noticed and learned that the truck’s owner not only had a shot gun but also had a pistol on his belt. I was very lucky not to have been shot and killed. I found out later the truck’s owner had been drinking and was kicked out of his house, so he decided to sleep it off in the back of his truck. It was in the summer time too.

After being grounded for weeks, paying my fines, and serving some community service I went to this owner’s home and apologized for the crime. He accepted. And realized my poor judgment and how I could have been killed. And we talked for a while I mentioned that I was scared about the weapons I saw that night and he said “You were scared? Well I hoped you learned a lesson” I said yes. And thanked him for not shooting me. After then I dropped the crowd I hung out with and I have owned many properties since and I have lived throughout Missoula and had numerous issues with people stealing from me, and the police never followed up on the thefts. Today I live outside of Missoula City limits and own a lot of acreage. I own fire arms to defend my property if someone were to find themselves on my property without being invited I hope I would use the right decision to rid the pesky person.

From what I understand the kids were doing something called garage hoping (going through open garages looking for alchol)

Justice for DEDE

Did he shoot the kid in the back while he was running away? That would not seem to be self defense.

Yay. Justice for Dede.

I am confused why this Guy is charged but the other person who broke into the garage is just questioned. Yet the bozeman man shoots his own houseguest and isn't charged.

Kaarma's actions have profound impact to the victim's family and friends as well as his own. Condolences to all effected by this terrible tragedy.

The other kid ran. I am going to venture a guess that the kid who died got shot in the back (running away, too), and that is the reason for the deliberate homicide charge.

Just pure speculation, but there must exist a pretty good reason to bring this charge. If the dead kid was fleeing when shot, I would like to see the shooter convicted and sentenced to a long term.

It will be interesting to read the prosecutor's affidavit, which will allege the facts the state believes to support the charge of deliberate homicide.

Kaarma now charged even in consideration of the "Castle Doctrine" law. The simplistic "guy just trying to protect his family" storyline appears not to apply here. Something much more sinister and hideous appears to have taken place. Condolences to the friends and family of the deceased child.

I would have never expected this. Oh that's right, I did. What was 17 year old Diren Dede going after in the garage that was worth his life? Apparently Castle doctrine does apply in this instance. Gee, I wonder why? Isn't deliberate homicide part of the stand your ground law? BJackson and others believe it is. More details please Missoulian.

Typical Missoula.

They are going to make this about race, instead of a potential criminal breaking the law by trespassing and possibly breaking and entering.

Waste of time and tax payer money, hopefully the jury picked for this will be more intelligent than the status quo in the Zoo.

There obviously is a lot more to this story then first reported. The facts will come out sooner or later. Something had to of happened more than just the idea this was self defense. Sad situation for everyone involved. My condolences to the young man's family for their loss, for the host family who lost a son and for the owners family who faces an uphill battle all the way around.